Suspend VST3 plug-in processing - on or off?

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KVRAF
3356 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:39 pm

seen it as a new feature in S1 so can be interesting, it's an already exist feature in Cubase (https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... ing_c.html)
Image

and I've seen both positive and negative experiences about it
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/suspend- ... off/686022
CPU spikes etc.

what is your experience with it, on/off would be the better default state of it, do I have to drop out all my VST2 plugins just because of it, is it a plugin depend feature or the host DAWs handle it, many questions ... so what is your experience with it?

:help:
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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KVRian
570 posts since 20 Nov, 2000 from Valencia, Spain

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:22 am

It was "on" by default until Cubase 10.5, then they set it to "off" because of problems with the VST3 versions of several plugins. I guess it should be fine now, but I don't really know as I haven't activated the feature since a couple of years ago, and my system has been very stable all this time (no more plugins crashing or hanging on exit), so maybe this has contributed to it. I also replaced my Nvidia graphic card with a very cheap Radeon.

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KVRAF
10239 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:40 am

It's not a new feature by any means. FL has it. Bitwig does too.

I can imagine it causing problems if plugin is disabled and "suddenly" has to wake up to process or generate sound, so the machinery has to spin up which might lead to some CPU spikes or even worse. In Bitwig I believe it can be set per plugin (via the Inspector) so probably safe to just experiment with it.
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KVRAF

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3356 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:52 am

talked about S1, does it related to VST3s in Bitwig/FL Studio anyway?
---
"Smart Disable turns off plugins when they are idle and can significantly reduce CPU load. NOTE: Some plugins can cause audio glitches if disabled, so use the per-wrapper switch to turn smart disable off." - FLS
---

--
"The Suspend option sets how Bitwig Studio determines when the
plug-in is not needed and can be safely suspended for the time being.
(When this occurs, the plug-in's "power" button icon turns into a moon,
indicating that it is resting and saving CPU cycles.) There are three
options for this setting:
› Never - The plug-in remains active perpetually.
› When silent - Bitwig Studio determines when the plug-in isn't needed,
based on whether audio is going into and out of the plug-in.
› Trust plug-in (default) - Bitwig Studio uses background notifications
from the plug-in to determine when it is not active.
When the plug-in is enabled to Use MPE (multidimensional polyphonic
expression), the functional pitch-bend range (PB range) can be set in
semitones. So the example above of ± 48 semitones represents a range
of four octave up and down. For more information on plug-ins and MPE,"
---
Bitwig
and there are interesting comments about it for ex.
Thanks djw. I thought the Suspend function in preferences would apply to all VST3 plugins when I saw it. After finding out that the function is included in Wavelab and turned on (no option to turn off), I did some testing and found very few 3rd party plugins that supported it, so they would never suspend processing. If it’s the same in Cubase and not a problem for anyone, I guess it’s not a problem. But I was just surprised.

In Wavelab, these VST3 plugins suspend processing when no signal present:
Steinberg
Stillwell
Eiosis

These don’t:
Voxengo
Sonnox
Izotope
Waves
A.O.M.
DMG
TDR
Slate
Kazrog

I don’t know if this covers all plugins made by these plugin makers, but that’s what I found testing one plugin from each in Wavelab. So it’s certainly not a comprehensive test.
- https://forums.steinberg.net/t/suspend- ... ng/97648/4
Last edited by xbitz on Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KVRAF
29505 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:58 am

Plugin nap in Studio One works for VST2 and VST3 plugins, so, not sure what you're on about... the thing you are talking about here is a VST3 standard feature which is supported by Cubase, not the other way around, AFAIK.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

3356 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:03 am

about Cubase (on/off should be the default) and the whole magic :D , not checked S1 directly just seen it affects effect plugins only
Plug-in Nap
Studio One 5.4 introduces a new Plug-in Nap option that improves overall CPU performance by pausing processing for any plug-ins that are not currently passing audio. The status for each plug-in can be monitored in the updated Performance Monitor.

Plug-in Nap is automatically suspended when the plug-in window is opened. With this new option enabled, you can run more plug-ins in your session. Plug-in Nap does not currently support virtual instruments."
https://www.presonus.com/products/studi ... lug-in-Nap

till now the conclusion: there is a VST3 feature which is used by Cubase(the stuffs of Steinberg) and besides, DAWs are also able to handle it (based on the same principle (signal level)) but indenpendtly from each other if I got it well
Last edited by xbitz on Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

KVRAF
29505 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:15 am

Ok, I didn't read that it only works for effect plugins in Studio One.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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KVRAF
10239 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:50 am

xbitz wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:52 am
talked about S1, does it related to VST3s in Bitwig/FL Studio anyway?
In Bitwig I believe it works for any plugin, not just VST3. Not sure about FL.
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KVRAF
2051 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:07 am

the problem with VST3, and also signal... by host, is that the implementation must be good.
especially, with VST3, it is already mentioned, developers do make mistakes with it...
and many things that a part of VST3 were already developed in VST2...
it is a bit of a chaos.

if you turn on nap, in S1, it does not use the suspend mode of VST3?.

well, in way, it doesn't matter that much, if a plugin does not play, indeed it draws CPU cycles, but for instance in Bitwig Studio 4.01, Pigments 3 a MPE patch from scratch, when not played, there is indeed some processing, but there are other soft synths also, when it plays, well... it eats the CPU, but it plays, quite well..

the best way is still; in my humble opinion; pre-rendering, non-armed tracks. which bitwig lacks, also ableton.

of course a suspend mode, or a nap mode (Melda has a sleep mode built in, so also plugin developers take another road... you can of course disable it, in Melda) will give some room, but when the song gets busy, well suspend does nothing, of course.

pre-rendering dóes.
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3356 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:30 am

^^^ "pre-rendering" so do I try to use the most aggressive settings in ASIO-Guard (another magic :D ),
The ASIO-Guard allows you to preprocess all channels as well as VST instruments that do not need to be calculated in realtime.
https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... ard_c.html and leave it alone if it's able to work properly? ( + freezing which would be another topic that needs active user assistance https://music.tutsplus.com/articles/qui ... -cms-20915 can't work automagically )
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KVRAF
10239 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:05 am

WasteLand wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:07 am
the best way is still; in my humble opinion; pre-rendering, non-armed tracks. which bitwig lacks, also ableton.
Perhaps, but how would it work for not armed tracks with non-deterministic processing, e.g. with random LFOs or randomised MIDI? In particular if processing of such tracks would be an input to armed tracks (as a sidechain source, modulation source or FM operator)? Or if the user decides to launch a clip from Clip Launcher with a launch quantisation lower than the secondary buffer?

I think that the modular architecture of Bitwig (or Live, or Reason, or FL) and resulting potential complications prevent the devs from implementing this.
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KVRAF
2051 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:17 am

antic604 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:05 am
WasteLand wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:07 am
the best way is still; in my humble opinion; pre-rendering, non-armed tracks. which bitwig lacks, also ableton.
Perhaps, but how would it work for not armed tracks with non-deterministic processing, e.g. with random LFOs or randomised MIDI? In particular if processing of such tracks would be an input to armed tracks (as a sidechain source, modulation source or FM operator)? Or if the user decides to launch a clip from Clip Launcher with a launch quantisation lower than the secondary buffer?

I think that the modular architecture of Bitwig (or Live, or Reason, or FL) and resulting potential complications prevent the devs from implementing this.
mmmmh, didn't think of that, but still even with no-deterministic processing, well some vst plugins can do it, a lot, and even sidechain, modulation sources, i think it can be done.
cubase and reaper lack of course modulation sources (do they?), but do have sends/fx tracks.
automation. plugins with midi out, that can modulate, etc. other plugins, etc.

perhaps the clips can be problem. perhaps you right, i can't judge that with limited knowledge.

pre-rendering in cubase is mainly a bigger buffer... reaper does some more stuff i believe, but i am no expert in that domain. no reaper is also buffer based. it shows only more settings. as always.
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KVRAF
10239 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:32 am

WasteLand wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:17 am
mmmmh, didn't think of that, but still even with no-deterministic processing, well some vst plugins can do it, a lot, and even sidechain, modulation sources, i think it can be done.
cubase and reaper lack of course modulation sources (do they?), but do have sends/fx tracks.
automation. plugins with midi out, that can modulate, etc. other plugins, etc.

perhaps the clips can be problem. perhaps you right, i can't judge that with limited knowledge.

pre-rendering in cubase is mainly a bigger buffer... reaper does some more stuff i believe, but i am no expert in that domain. no reaper is also buffer based. it shows only more settings. as always.
No, I'm just looking for problems, instead of solution ;) A clever programmer could probably write a code that tracks those interdependancies and bundless the processes accordingly. They perhaps already do for multithreading. Also with clip launching they could for example prevent choosing small launch quantisation values if secondary buffer is engaged? And yes, Reaper does have rudimentary LFO and Env. Follower that you can attach to anything.

But disregarding the technical challenges, what I don't like in those double-buffered DAWs is the considerable delay between hitting play and hearing things (especially in Reaper and Cubase) and even more the fact that doing anything in the project (swapping devices or presets, moving clips, etc.) will result in pauses or glitches in playback - that doesn't happen in Live or Bitwig, precisely because they run on a single, realtime buffer.
Last edited by antic604 on Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Music tech enthusiast
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My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRAF

Topic Starter

3356 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:33 am

ahamm, so VST3 suspending can cause crashes this was my experience too from the prev. days so confirmed (started use VST3s only and its "is enabled by default.")
https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-crashes

there are interesting articles under ASIO Guard too https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... 93#results
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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KVRian
1077 posts since 3 Jan, 2019 from Holland

Post Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:25 am

I have it on. But as said before, there are many devs that didn't implement this vst3 feature properly (like so many other vst3 features) and this can cause issues. I have no problems with it tho.
More BPM please

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