MAC vs Windows for production

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chk071
KVRAF
30020 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:28 am

I actually see quite a few artists using Windows. Not as many as I see using Macs, but, it's not like they are non existant.

Apart from that, even if there ONLY would be artists using Macs, that doesn't prove anything, does it? The opposite is the case. I read more than once that DAW are less stable on Mac than they are on Windows (Studio One and Cubase, for example. Read quite a few times that they're more crash prone).
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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BONES
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12586 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:34 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:31 am
@lunardigs: Thanks, that's very encouraging. I actually looked at the XPS desktops. I will refrain from buying now though, of course. The prices are absolute bonkers.
Have a look on eBay. They sell "refurbished" models, which are just customer returns, at good prices with a full warranty. I've bought 3 of the 5 Dells I've owned that way, once for half the full price, and never had a problem.
fmr wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:44 am
I would just add: If retrocompatibility is an issue for you, choose Windows. If not, choose whatever you're into.
That's way too simplistic. e.g. If you're a Studio One user, it seems to me that it runs like shit on a Mac so you'd be crazy to go that route. But for a lot of us it is as much about money as anything so if you want the best set-up you can get for your budget, you'd pretty much always end up with a PC (see above for an example of what I mean).
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fmr
KVRAF
10547 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:16 am

BONES wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:34 am
... for a lot of us it is as much about money as anything so if you want the best set-up you can get for your budget, you'd pretty much always end up with a PC (see above for an example of what I mean).
Yes, I agree with that. But it seems with M1, suddenly some budget Macs appeared (like the current Mini models). Budget here is "budget" when compared to Mac usual prices, of course, because when you need to expand it, you end up with higher prices still).

Whether they stand when put up to their paces (EG with geavy AI loaded projects), remains yet to be seen.
Fernando (FMR)

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TribeOfHǫfuð
KVRian
806 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:34 am

I prefer my macs for music production surely. On the other hand, I prefer my windows PC for just about everything else, including work, so everything is fine here.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154 "First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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4damind
KVRAF
5491 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:49 am

Were Macbooks not as stable in the past? I would say that was always the main reason why many switched from Windows to Mac at some point (especially in the days of Windows 95).

When I look I see mostly Macbooks on stage, I would say 90%. Of course that can be a coincidence ;)

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fmr
KVRAF
10547 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:48 am

4damind wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:49 am
Were Macbooks not as stable in the past? I would say that was always the main reason why many switched from Windows to Mac at some point (especially in the days of Windows 95).

When I look I see mostly Macbooks on stage, I would say 90%. Of course that can be a coincidence ;)
Well, even in the Pro Tools universe (which was once almost 100% Mac based) it seems that there are nowadays more than 50% using Windows (based on a poll ran at the Pro Tools user group a couple of years ago). That must mean something :shrug:

I would say that vendors are in the best position to get an exact picture. If they have sales stats per platform (which I bleieve most of them do), and would share them, we could get it pretty clear. But I don't see that happening.
Fernando (FMR)

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BONES
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12586 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:50 am

TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:34 am
I prefer my macs for music production surely. On the other hand, I prefer my windows PC for just about everything else, including work, so everything is fine here.
I've always hated it when I felt I needed more than one computer. It's just so inefficient that it never lasted more than a few months. e.g. Two years ago I bought a big, heavy 17" gaming laptop that I decided was just too big to be carting around to gigs, so I bought a Surface Pro to use just for live work and it took about 4 months to realise (again) what a rod I had made for my own back, so I ditched both of them for one that's almost as grunty as the gaming laptop and almost as portable as the Surface. It is far and away the path of least hassle or compromise.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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lunardigs
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921 posts since 6 Jun, 2016 from San Marcos, Texas

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:08 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:40 pm
Why on Earth would anyone want AMD graphics?
Stuff like this: https://gpuopen.com/
AMD opening their hardware; accommodating open source development; strong Linux support, etc.
Aside from that, I don't care who's top dog lately.

That said, I can't say AMD GPUs are poor in any way. My experience has been very good with them so far. Mind you, I also have 5 nvidia GPUs currently, that I administer in an office. Frankly, to me, nvidia GPUs are far more trouble than it's worth for whatever performance edge they might have.
I'm going to support AMD for now. After all, they support me in my use of Linux. Hopefully they keep it up and maybe in the meantime nvidia will come around.

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mgw38
KVRAF
2582 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:30 pm

fmr wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:48 am
Well, even in the Pro Tools universe (which was once almost 100% Mac based) it seems that there are nowadays more than 50% using Windows (based on a poll ran at the Pro Tools user group a couple of years ago). That must mean something :shrug:
Sounds fishy. Have you ever used Pro Tools on Windows? „Pure torture“ doesn‘t even begin to describe it. And I‘m not eben talking about the lovely Windows 7 esthetic. :)

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BONES
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12586 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:34 pm

Shit like that often comes down to deals done between companies. e.g. Microsoft sold SoftImage (3D modelling/animation/rendering application) to Avid (owners of ProTools and M-Audio) for a song, on the condition that Avid would focus more on Windows. Wherever possible, I prefer to use an application on the platform it was developed on/for, not one it has been ported to.
lunardigs wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:08 pm
Frankly, to me, nvidia GPUs are far more trouble than it's worth for whatever performance edge they might have.
Says someone who doesn't have to rely on them to make a living. Performance for 3D animation software is night and day and I'd rather have the cheapest entry-level nVidia Quadro card than the most expensive Radeon. Just simple things like having presets for all the most popular software applications makes a world of difference and CUDA for rendering projects is a massive advantage.
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lunardigs
KVRian
921 posts since 6 Jun, 2016 from San Marcos, Texas

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:30 pm

BONES wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:34 pm
lunardigs wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:08 pm
Frankly, to me, nvidia GPUs are far more trouble than it's worth for whatever performance edge they might have.
Says someone who doesn't have to rely on them to make a living. Performance for 3D animation software is night and day and I'd rather have the cheapest entry-level nVidia Quadro card than the most expensive Radeon. Just simple things like having presets for all the most popular software applications makes a world of difference and CUDA for rendering projects is a massive advantage.
AMD has OpenCL, which isn't entirely different from CUDA. Blender supports OpenCL as well, so do others.
Still, we have a dual nvidia GPU, Blender workstation, as we need virtual product photography. I'm familiar with both nvidia and AMD GPUs at this point and, like I said, I won't be buying anymore nvidia stuff if I can help it.
I have similar plans to phase out all our Intel stuff ...

Anyway, you and I have had conversations like this before; I'm pragmatic to an extent with my tech, but there's a greater pragmatism that can be defeated here by 'just going along' with these companies. They'll surely take us for a ride too if we let them.
Eventually, there's only so much abuse I'll stand. Ya know?

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BONES
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12586 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:37 pm

lunardigs wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:30 pm
AMD has OpenCL, which isn't entirely different from CUDA. Blender supports OpenCL as well, so do others.
So does CUDA, which I think means you don't need support in your application. And Cinema 4D renders way faster with Quadro and CUDA than it does with anything Radeon that I've seen.
like I said, I won't be buying anymore nvidia stuff if I can help it.
Whereas you couldn't give me a computer with an AMD card in it.
I have similar plans to phase out all our Intel stuff ...
Why? Because this year they aren't the fastest around any more? It's not like this is the first time - AMD's Athlon kicked Intel's arse for a year or two - 20 years ago, but it didn't last.
Anyway, you and I have had conversations like this before; I'm pragmatic to an extent with my tech, but there's a greater pragmatism that can be defeated here by 'just going along' with these companies. They'll surely take us for a ride too if we let them.
Eventually, there's only so much abuse I'll stand. Ya know?
It depends on your perspective. To me, nVidia are the disruptors - the new boys who came along and stuck it to the established brands. AMD, as the owners of ATI, is the establishment where graphics cards are concerned. ATI swallowed up Diamond's FireGL cards, which used to be competitive, and ruined them.
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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TribeOfHǫfuð
KVRian
806 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:12 pm

BONES wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:50 am
I've always hated it when I felt I needed more than one computer.
Me too, rly. I bought my first mac in 2019, and it was only because my university had stuffed so much security, network and server sync crap into my win lap that it was but a pile of latencies. That security apartment always act as if we are about to find a cure for cancer, and China is about to steal it. I think they invent problems to justify their employment.
Last edited by TribeOfHǫfuð on Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154 "First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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lunardigs
KVRian
921 posts since 6 Jun, 2016 from San Marcos, Texas

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:27 pm

BONES wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:37 pm
lunardigs wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:30 pm
AMD has OpenCL, which isn't entirely different from CUDA. Blender supports OpenCL as well, so do others.
So does CUDA, which I think means you don't need support in your application. And Cinema 4D renders way faster with Quadro and CUDA than it does with anything Radeon that I've seen.
like I said, I won't be buying anymore nvidia stuff if I can help it.
Whereas you couldn't give me a computer with an AMD card in it.
I have similar plans to phase out all our Intel stuff ...
Why? Because this year they aren't the fastest around any more? It's not like this is the first time - AMD's Athlon kicked Intel's arse for a year or two - 20 years ago, but it didn't last.
Anyway, you and I have had conversations like this before; I'm pragmatic to an extent with my tech, but there's a greater pragmatism that can be defeated here by 'just going along' with these companies. They'll surely take us for a ride too if we let them.
Eventually, there's only so much abuse I'll stand. Ya know?
It depends on your perspective. To me, nVidia are the disruptors - the new boys who came along and stuck it to the established brands. AMD, as the owners of ATI, is the establishment where graphics cards are concerned. ATI swallowed up Diamond's FireGL cards, which used to be competitive, and ruined them.
AMD has not been a great friend of Linux. They're as much the establishment as Intel for that matter. That's kinda where I come from on this.
I don't particularly like either company.
Yet, in the current ecosystem, which includes ARM, I think AMD is making the kind of moves I want to see. I want more openness with hardware. I don't like all the black boxes I'm surrounded by.

That said, I run a Xeon desktop right now and it's great. I built it with the intention of lasting a decade. I'm on year 5 right now.
These things change of course, so who knows what's next to come.

The chief reason I'll avoid nvidia though, for now, is because of their proprietary drivers, which are pretty much necessary for use with Linux. This is my main problem with nvidia; I don't want to run their binary blob. Not least because it's quirky. Seems I always had compositor problems with it.
Meanwhile, my desktop Radeon runs open source drivers and doesn't constantly crash my compositor like my GTX 1070 did.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
12586 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:38 pm

lunardigs wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:27 pm
AMD has not been a great friend of Linux. They're as much the establishment as Intel for that matter. That's kinda where I come from on this.
I don't particularly like either company.
Yet, in the current ecosystem, which includes ARM, I think AMD is making the kind of moves I want to see. I want more openness with hardware. I don't like all the black boxes I'm surrounded by.
I'm the opposite. All I see with Open Source is waiting forever for things to improve in any meaningful way. Look at OpenGL as a perfect example - it stagnated while DirectX went from strength to strength. And 20 years after I stopped using WindowMaker 0.7x, it still hasn't reached version 1.0.
That said, I run a Xeon desktop right now and it's great. I built it with the intention of lasting a decade. I'm on year 5 right now. These things change of course, so who knows what's next to come.
Meanwhile, I buy a new laptop pretty much every year.
The chief reason I'll avoid nvidia though, for now, is because of their proprietary drivers, which are pretty much necessary for use with Linux. This is my main problem with nvidia; I don't want to run their binary blob. Not least because it's quirky. Seems I always had compositor problems with it.
OTOH, it took our Linux whizzes at Autodesk weeks to get the Quadro card in my Dell M90 working and I'd have killed for proper nVidia drivers. After all, who is going to know how to get the best performance from a piece of hardware, the people who designed and manufactured it or some nerd sitting in his mother's basement?
Meanwhile, my desktop Radeon runs open source drivers and doesn't constantly crash my compositor like my GTX 1070 did.
Nuke? Or something unsupported?
NOVAkILL : Zenbook Duo, Core i7, 16GB RAM, Win10(64), Evo8 | Studio One | JP6K, Union, Hexeract, bx_oberhausen, Odyssey, TRK-01, Vacuum Pro, Invader, Concept, GR-8, Thorn, Equator, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro Desktop, Uno, Rocket.

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