Plogue OPS7 (bit-accurate DX7 emulation!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRist
109 posts since 14 Jan, 2020

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:58 am

disagree on the matrix-style routing display, at least if we're comparing it to Plogue's UI (the Reason one is pretty rough...)

I see that as a necessary evil for FM synths that have freely configurable routing, but in a DX7 emu there's no point shunting the algorithm into another box you have to reference to figure out which numbered operator is doing what... here the operator positions are the algorithm, and you can touch levels/tuning without diving through tabs.

you just need a drop-down selector for algos and we're good, I think. it wasn't a big deal in csmd because there's way fewer 4op algorithms.

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KVRAF
4520 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:01 am

Lucastyle wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:25 am
David seing that all the tx81z parameters are there in the extended section are you going to implement tx81z sysex import?
tx81z has a wider fm index range
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRist
146 posts since 5 Sep, 2011

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:05 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:01 am
Lucastyle wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:25 am
David seing that all the tx81z parameters are there in the extended section are you going to implement tx81z sysex import?
tx81z has a wider fm index range
Index ranges? please explain

KVRian
798 posts since 3 Aug, 2001 from Montreal

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:28 am

This question popped up quite a few times, so here is the official answer:

The TX81Z/DX11 use a much different OPZ (YM2414B) chip, which is a derivative of the OPP (YM2164) (FB01/DX100/21/27) which in turn is a derivative of the "arcade" OPM (YM2151). (Sorry I love typing all that).

In short the firmware and sound chip behave differently in many ways and its not just a question of translation. We could do a rough job to create OPS7 targets for those sysex but so many things would be lost of different unless we swapped the whole synth engine for our TX81Z reverse engineered firmware (oups leak). We wouldn't want to just do a mediocre translation to OPS7. It would need its own product and parameters/ui.

Thing is we already shipped three FM synths in the last 4 years, so there is no rush.
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

KVRAF
3094 posts since 18 May, 2003 from Sweden

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:29 am

For many years I had a DX7 (first version) that I eventually upgraded with an E! card.

I like the OPS7 GUI – it retains the feel of the DX7 but is quite cleverly organised, I think, at least for me with my allergy to matrices with lots of numbers. ;-) But then I was always mainly a tweaker of presets. And I much prefer the slightly murky DX7 colour scheme to the light FM8-style graphics.

After my first hour with OPS7, I'm impressed by the quality that I sense in every detail – clearly, this instrument wasn't whipped up in a coffe-break… ;-) Good purchase!
If it were easy, anybody could do it!

KVRist
146 posts since 5 Sep, 2011

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:44 am

davidv@plogue wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:28 am
This question popped up quite a few times, so here is the official answer:

The TX81Z/DX11 use a much different OPZ (YM2414B) chip, which is a derivative of the OPP (YM2164) (FB01/DX100/21/27) which in turn is a derivative of the "arcade" OPM (YM2151). (Sorry I love typing all that).

In short the firmware and sound chip behave differently in many ways and its not just a question of translation. We could do a rough job to create OPS7 targets for those sysex but so many things would be lost of different unless we swapped the whole synth engine for our TX81Z reverse engineered firmware (oups leak). We wouldn't want to just do a mediocre translation to OPS7. It would need its own product and parameters/ui.

Thing is we already shipped three FM synths in the last 4 years, so there is no rush.
Understandable, I hope there is enough demand for you to consider doing a tx81z in the future cause with the level of detail that this OPS7 shows it would be awesome, I had to pass several offers of dx7's knowing that you were working on this plug in and I'm glad I did.

Either way I'm able to get really close to some presets with OPS7 nonetheless.

Hope you consider the link layers, detune panning and analog noise suggestion I've made to include them in OPS7.

Cheers

KVRian
798 posts since 3 Aug, 2001 from Montreal

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:06 am

Lucastyle wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:44 am
Hope you consider the link layers, detune panning and analog noise suggestion I've made to include them in OPS7.
Link layers is an interesting concept. The regression risk in implementing such a thing is not insignificant. Single pan button to spread A/B? Not a bad idea. Noise, hmm modeling noise is complex. so having just a looping sample of noises of all my various units could be done, but I'm tempted in putting that in chipcrusher, which already has a whole set of noise loops among other dirtying features.
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

KVRist
314 posts since 15 Oct, 2001 from Santa Fe, NM

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:07 am

Bought and love the sound of this! Identical patches sound very different than Dexed... I don't have a DX7 to compare it to, but I like the sound of OPS7 much more. Haven't compared to Arturia yet.

I want to get off on the right foot understanding Patch/Preset saving. If I load a .syx bank in the SYX screen and copy them all into the A column I can play them all but it seems like more of a "preview" mode...? To properly save a sound would I need to save it as a "fermata" preset? If I wanted the whole DX7 factory ROM1A bank in OPS7 would I need to save each patch as a preset, one at a time? If I go to this trouble I'll certainly share the fruits of my labor...

Thanks!

KVRist
314 posts since 15 Oct, 2001 from Santa Fe, NM

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:16 am

FYI, Plogue would get a lot of exposure $$$ by posting in the "New Product Alert!" forum at Gearspace. There's already a thread in the "Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production" forum on Gearspace.

https://gearspace.com/board/electronic- ... roduction/

KVRian

Topic Starter

770 posts since 28 Jul, 2006

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:18 am

abernathy wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:16 am
FYI, Plogue would get a lot of exposure $$$ by posting in the "New Product Alert!" forum at Gearspace. There's already a thread in the "Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production" forum on Gearspace.

https://gearspace.com/board/electronic- ... roduction/
It seems like they don't care much about advertising

KVRian
798 posts since 3 Aug, 2001 from Montreal

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:47 am

briefcasemanx wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:18 am
It seems like they don't care much about advertising
Takes time off research :D
Seriously I know, just so many hats I can wear.
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

KVRist
190 posts since 13 Jul, 2021

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:00 am

A Bitter Sweet moment in time.
Some love the Dx/Op period but in many ways it was also a downfall.
Much respect to any developer who can reverse something so well that it is almost indistinguishable from the original.
I hope Plogue make enough money to hire a dedicated GUI designer and move forward.
A very much underrated developer that we need.

KVRist
146 posts since 5 Sep, 2011

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:20 am

davidv@plogue wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:06 am
Lucastyle wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:44 am
Hope you consider the link layers, detune panning and analog noise suggestion I've made to include them in OPS7.
Link layers is an interesting concept. The regression risk in implementing such a thing is not insignificant. Single pan button to spread A/B? Not a bad idea. Noise, hmm modeling noise is complex. so having just a looping sample of noises of all my various units could be done, but I'm tempted in putting that in chipcrusher, which already has a whole set of noise loops among other dirtying features.
Link layers is somewhere high in my list of features I would like to see implemented in there with the undo function and A/B compare button and yeah single knob to spread A/B is what i was trying to suggest.

Hope the noise ends in some of your products as it can help in sound design.

Cheers

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KVRAF
4520 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:57 am

Lucastyle wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:05 am
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:01 am
Lucastyle wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:25 am
David seing that all the tx81z parameters are there in the extended section are you going to implement tx81z sysex import?
tx81z has a wider fm index range
Index ranges? please explain
FM amount
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

KVRian
798 posts since 3 Aug, 2001 from Montreal

Post Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:13 am

Norqa wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:00 am
I hope Plogue make enough money to hire a dedicated GUI designer and move forward.
You and me both.
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
https://twitter.com/plgDavid
https://plogue.com

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