Worrying about using old samples and the legal ramifications...

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
KVRist
50 posts since 27 Sep, 2021

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:26 pm

This is a thing? :hihi:

A word to the wise (and this will probably rub a lot of people the wrong way... BUT... I need to get this off my chest).

Now, just a quick background... and I don't know how many people on this forum give the slightest shit about Hip Hop music, but, I come from the old school of Hip Hop (before its hyper-commercialisation, and before trap and drill) and back then, people just used samples without a care in the world, because they were enjoying themselves, and creating art (and because a lot of people were piss broke, and couldn't afford actual synthesizers, a studio, and the like, so they used samplers like the SP1200, or MPC 2000 instead, and expressed themselves rather astutely!).

Hip Hop was birthed in the streets. And to me, it's very unfortunate that it never stayed there (for, it was far more interesting)... but that's another matter.

But back to Hip Hop and samples. And not just any samples, I'm talking about samples circa 50s-80s. Shit with a lot of depth, and a tonne of character. People think that shit is easy. HAHA. A laughable notion at best.

Sampling old music, and making something completely new, that works, and is relevant, is an extremely intricate art form. And a lot of people can't do it, despite their hubris (like 90% of beatmakers/producers today). That's why you have veteran Hip Hop producers (The Alchemist, Pete Rock, DJ Premier etc.), and you have wannabes. People with soul, and bounce, and skill, and imagination... and people with nothing but a collage of sounds that don't fit (again, 90% of beatmakers today).

But back on topic, nowadays, far too many people try to run before they can walk, worrying endlessly about this or that legal aspect of sampling. Maaaan, I say JUST enjoy yourself, and if you ever get to a point where someone wants to sue you, rejoice! It means you're doing something right.

Don't get bogged down by bureaucracy. Music should always be an art form first. If you're making music with money in mind -- whether it be the acquisition of money, or how much you stand to lose -- you're not making art. You're making business, and business is sterile, and lacks imagination, and will limit you far more than it will make you flourish.

I feel that society is completely awash with this notion of profits, and money above all else, and all these people trying to make something beautiful, while carefully treading the lines of what's 'normal'... and to me it's very bizarre.

Let me tell you something, friends... success is a natural gravitation. If you set out to make money in any artistic endeavour, you're setting yourself up for failure, because if you set out to make money, you're tailoring your art to make money. In other words you're washing it down to fit the dubious criterion of whatever it is that the vast majority enjoy. You're making art to tickle the fancy of bog standard consumers that waste time watching weird reality TV shows, to give but one example... lol

Start with a little madness, and be raw! Everything else will fall in to place. Hey, if you want to be the next Bill Gates, be my guest. But I'd argue that being the next Einstein (metaphorically speaking) is a far more noble pursuit!

Peace out

KVRian
995 posts since 25 Feb, 2008 from Sydney, Australia

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:07 pm

Well, if you can't sample any of the good old stuff anymore, you could try recreating a few classic beats in your DAW, just like Pharrell and Robin Thicke did! :D
Prestissimo in Moto Perpetuo

KVRAF
13130 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:15 pm

Did someone try to link Einstein and Hip Hop? It's time for some MC Hawking!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgltMtf1JhY

(IBTL)

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KVRAF
30850 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:42 pm

Sample anything you like ... it's publishing that's the issue. :ud:

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KVRAF
7273 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:54 pm

There are hip hop heads on this forum but this was a cringeworthy read. I can’t even tell if the intentions are sincere or just someone trolling for the hell of it. MC Hawking indeed (sadly).

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KVRAF
13123 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:12 pm

Memsterrr wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:26 pm
Peace out
Amen.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Image
My MusicCalc is served over https!!

KVRist
52 posts since 19 Aug, 2021

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:16 pm

I'm not quite sure what you are on about. You can sample for whatever you like, but you need to clear the sample before you publish anything. That's just how it goes, if J Dilla can do it, so can you. (Yes, he's getting sued, or better his estate, but about things that were published out of greed after he was dead.)

KVRAF
1631 posts since 19 Mar, 2008 from germany

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:21 pm

I think you're running into open doors here.
Memsterrr wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:26 pm

... Music should always be an art form first. If you're making music with money in mind -- whether it be the acquisition of money, or how much you stand to lose -- you're not making art. You're making business, and business is sterile, and lacks imagination, and will limit you far more than it will make you flourish.
Absolutely right. This applies to all arts - especially to music. As an artist,
you have to trust yourself, be bold, do your thing. If you can't do that, you
can't be an artist either. :)

When it comes to creating sample sets, however, things look a little
different: It's such meticulous fiddling that I can understand if some people
do this with a view to selling their sample set. Putting together multisamples
is more of an engineering work than an art. (I know that in Hip Hop you don't
use sample sets, you sample around wildly yourself, but this sub-forum is
mainly about such sample sets.) :neutral:

And yet I appreciate even more those who put together beautiful multisamples
for free on a donation basis - and thus support the Free Cultural Movement and
thus invite everyone to participate. Ultimately, I also believe that the "Free
Culture" is closer to art than the commercial attitude. :wink:
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs + weird stuff: enroe.de

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KVRAF
6636 posts since 13 Jan, 2003 from Darkest Kent, UK

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:38 pm

There's so much stuff out there in the public domain that if copyright is an issue for an artist then I just don't think they're being creative enough. If your music relies on samples of massive selling, major label music then you really need to step back and refocus, broaden your gaze.
()_()
(O.o)
(")(")

KVRAF
13130 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:54 pm

GaryG wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:38 pm
There's so much stuff out there in the public domain that if copyright is an issue for an artist then I just don't think they're being creative enough. If your music relies on samples of massive selling, major label music then you really need to step back and refocus, broaden your gaze.
In fairness though, that's not really what crate digging is about. See the aforementioned Amen break. I agree with this:
But back on topic, nowadays, far too many people try to run before they can walk, worrying endlessly about this or that legal aspect of sampling. Maaaan, I say JUST enjoy yourself, and if you ever get to a point where someone wants to sue you, rejoice! It means you're doing something right.
Just make music how you want to make music. Then, if you get to that point where you're releasing things that need clearance, get the clearance. You're not going to refine your sampling technique by not doing it though.

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fmr
KVRAF
10428 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:39 am

ghettosynth wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:54 pm
Just make music how you want to make music. Then, if you get to that point where you're releasing things that need clearance, get the clearance. You're not going to refine your sampling technique by not doing it though.
Wise advice. :tu:
Fernando (FMR)

KVRAF
22941 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:22 am

"Sampling old music, and making something completely new, that works, and is relevant, is an extremely intricate art form. And a lot of people can't do it,"

Here's my counter to this posturing: a lot of people can't actually make music by their own musical wherewithal, so they delude themselves to think this is what making music is... and naturally there's a whole complex to work out on the internet behind it.

KVRAF
4614 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:56 pm

It's my understanding there were/are two things to look at here. The lawyers used to let you use so many seconds of sampling before it became criminal. i think it was 5-7 seconds (they might have changed that by now?) idk. second, if you are not in the public eye it's not worth it to come after you. they only go after people they can make money on.

KVRAF
4614 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:59 pm

It gets real fun when you start sampling songs that were made with samples.

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KVRAF
16115 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:01 pm

Memsterrr wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:26 pm
nowadays, far too many people try to run before they can walk, worrying endlessly about this or that legal aspect of sampling.
Perhaps they simply have morals. :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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