One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[Eauson]

For consideration?
https://onsenaudio.com/
Or
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/nettle-by-fellusive
Or of course
Whispair

[z.prime]

For consideration?
https://onsenaudio.com/

... which is the "OS-251" plugin? Clearly we need to wait for OSC-251 for this one.

[IV!]

Haha, in OSC-251 times it will turn into vintage-retro-lofi synth!)
No one has written yet, although everyone probably already knows! Before the month of WhispAir had even begun, Mr. Bjorn had already dropped a new digital bomb on our heads - FB-7999! (subtle humor in the title)
Maybe not a ton of possibilities (it's still an emulation...), but I'm thrilled with the sound!

[ontrackp]

Hello OSC Community -- and Richard and BJ --

Making my monthly appeal for allowing commercial plugs this month!

Thanks.

OnTrack

[Tj Shredder]

I am against it… It would be rather interesting to have one without any other than the one synth itself, interesting for those which can also act as fx or have a side chain input…

[] Peter:H []

OT - My Protoplug AmplitudeKungFu making better Progress than I expected. It's going to be a versatile Volume Shaper. For later the goal is to make it build shapes from frozen samples, let's you export them and import them into another instance. Funny ... it's worth kind of a week of effort and already it's pretty much fun.

In this animated gif you can see
* the wave display (I just pressed a key on my keyboard for a few seconds while adding points)
* how the curve editor is able to add/remove and move points (red)
* the spline interpolation between the points.

But for now it's still work in progress.
Update: The Volume Shaping by the catmul Spline is already applied - check the animated gif in the link. Sorry had to put it on drop box - it's to big for kvr. But I have to admit, that the curve is not applied as it's depicted in the gui. Need some work todo to cope for that ... but we're on our way

As I said it's not yet perfect, plenty of stuff that is not very performant. But for a beta / poc it's already pretty good enough. And as I have a Juce stuff running it shuld be no prob to transfere it to C++ in short time when it's finished.

The good point? It's free, the source code is free.. with lot's of juce and plugin programming stuff you can borrow for free...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b315mmwhg6o99 ... Fu_002.gif

Current feature branch: https://github.com/huberp/ProtoplugScri ... litude.lua

[] Peter:H []

Update on AmplitudeKungFu - The Splines that connect the control points one can add/remove by double click puzzled me a bit: It was hard to transfere what was in the GUI into the sample-synced processing-shape. Still not completely there, but the shape (blue line - flipped upside down for debugging purposes) is now rather close to the GUI model (red control points and derived white spline data).
And you can see that the "green/processed" samples are now much closer to the processing shape than yesterday...
We are still here code wise - branch "feature/pump-curve-editor"
https://github.com/huberp/ProtoplugScri ... litude.lua

Ah yes ... since yesterday already the Code modifies the volume according to what you edit... just in case some slacky rumors

AmplitudeKungFu 002.png

[IV!]

AmplitudeKungFu

I admire your work and look forward to the opportunity to try it in action, sincerely! However, it seems to me that this is not the right place for pre-release and update messages, unless I understand you correctly and this is an effect plugin and not a synthesizer that you offer to participate in the OSC.

[Tj Shredder]

The Whispair thread is derailing a bit about the discussion about the use of samples in wavetables. That is why I move my reply to Peter to this thread.
I guess it fits better here:

For me a VST synth is a piece of technology. I want to know what it's technically capable, that is part of the challenge for me. With doing so I learn about the synth, synthesize in general and how all works together. In the past I described every finding, so how zebralette learnt to speak, how thorn learnt it and even how it works for wts in common. I really read many articles about AM even for how it's applied in radio transmission. And all findings I have reported even way before end of the month. That you can push 1000 of points into any of TALs Msegs ... hm... I find this interesting, therefore I use it. That is how I deal with technology. If the One "Synth" Challenge is rather a Composition or Best DAW-Automation Challenge for anybody, yeah then this is valid too... as you said. I don't care, make it wiggle. What I do with EQs and automation is equally far from "the character of the synth" as using my precomputed AM points for TAL to be honest ... You can even modulate in audiorate the oscillator type of a synth from outside. Yeah, do it. If other participants write about their findings - cool, tried out many things myself. And that's the second and third thing - interesting sounds and learnings. I love sounds, I want to find new ones... and I love to learn by trying out stuff.
---
And finally the approach of dealing with samples is counter productive in my eyes. Because this way we never ever gonna do a single granular synth I'm affraid. And it's a little don quichotte battle in a age of wt synths. So why so desperately avoid it? Better deal with it by shaping it.

Rather than struggeling with samples, I suggest starting a curated OSC sample collection, a collection of like 20 samples/wts that are free to use as long as used through the synth. The use of a 1:1 replicated Crash will soon wear off, but still we can nerd with WT synths as they are supposed to be used... And I bet it's fun to curate these samples. I think I have suggested this many months ago already... when all this wt stuff started.

I must admit I love your approaches and it would be a loss not to see them. I had the idea already maybe to start a Single Sample Challenge the SSC (should be in the sampler forum). There the challenge would be to only use a single Sample as basic sound source and no restriction on the tools to mangle it. But with a restriction, that the original sample in its entirety is always used with a blurry rule that the original is still sort of recognizable…
A bit like this piece I made in the 80‘s with a sample of a cry from Diamanda Galas:

https://soundcloud.com/ondes-memorielle ... -the-voice

Used tools: Casio FZ-10m, Akai S-612,
Midi creation with a custom program written in Modula 2 running on a Gepard computer (68000 based, pre Atari…).
8-track Fostex tape machine. (One track used up for syncronization). Mixing analog with a real mixer…
I managed to do primitive granular synthesis with the S-612 by bombarding it with fast Midi chords and moving the start and end points of the sample by hand through the complete sample…
The original sample is the beginning of the piece (untreated…)

[Double Tap]

The Whispair thread is derailing a bit about the discussion about the use of samples in wavetables. That is why I move my reply to Peter to this thread.
I guess it fits better here:

For me a VST synth is a piece of technology. I want to know what it's technically capable, that is part of the challenge for me. With doing so I learn about the synth, synthesize in general and how all works together. In the past I described every finding, so how zebralette learnt to speak, how thorn learnt it and even how it works for wts in common. I really read many articles about AM even for how it's applied in radio transmission. And all findings I have reported even way before end of the month. That you can push 1000 of points into any of TALs Msegs ... hm... I find this interesting, therefore I use it. That is how I deal with technology. If the One "Synth" Challenge is rather a Composition or Best DAW-Automation Challenge for anybody, yeah then this is valid too... as you said. I don't care, make it wiggle. What I do with EQs and automation is equally far from "the character of the synth" as using my precomputed AM points for TAL to be honest ... You can even modulate in audiorate the oscillator type of a synth from outside. Yeah, do it. If other participants write about their findings - cool, tried out many things myself. And that's the second and third thing - interesting sounds and learnings. I love sounds, I want to find new ones... and I love to learn by trying out stuff.
---
And finally the approach of dealing with samples is counter productive in my eyes. Because this way we never ever gonna do a single granular synth I'm affraid. And it's a little don quichotte battle in a age of wt synths. So why so desperately avoid it? Better deal with it by shaping it.

Rather than struggeling with samples, I suggest starting a curated OSC sample collection, a collection of like 20 samples/wts that are free to use as long as used through the synth. The use of a 1:1 replicated Crash will soon wear off, but still we can nerd with WT synths as they are supposed to be used... And I bet it's fun to curate these samples. I think I have suggested this many months ago already... when all this wt stuff started.

I must admit I love your approaches and it would be a loss not to see them. I had the idea already maybe to start a Single Sample Challenge the SSC (should be in the sampler forum). There the challenge would be to only use a single Sample as basic sound source and no restriction on the tools to mangle it. But with a restriction, that the original sample in its entirety is always used with a blurry rule that the original is still sort of recognizable…
A bit like this piece I made in the 80‘s with a sample of a cry from Diamanda Galas:

https://soundcloud.com/ondes-memorielle ... -the-voice

Used tools: Casio FZ-10m, Akai S-612,
Midi creation with a custom program written in Modula 2 running on a Gepard computer (68000 based, pre Atari…).
8-track Fostex tape machine. (One track used up for syncronization). Mixing analog with a real mixer…
I managed to do primitive granular synthesis with the S-612 by bombarding it with fast Midi chords and moving the start and end points of the sample by hand through the complete sample…
The original sample is the beginning of the piece (untreated…)

Great idea As I said in the other thread, I think there's definitely room for a Sample Challenge and there are plenty of sample pack makers who would potentially offer up prizes or samples for a competition, eventually. Your idea about making the original sample audible at some point is really good, I think.

Of course the main question is if anyone is going to volunteer to organise it.

[Guenon]

The Whispair thread is derailing a bit about the discussion about the use of samples in wavetables. That is why I move my reply to Peter to this thread.

I was dumb and added to the derailing by replying in that thread with my opinion just now

...

Going to move my reply over here, seems like the better way to go about it.

[Guenon]

For me a VST synth is a piece of technology. I want to know what it's technically capable, that is part of the challenge for me.

There is usually a vast... absolutely humongous space to explore within an electronic instrument like this, whole worlds to be found, and "impossible" things to coax out of, finding interesting emergent properties and sweet spots and quirks and peculiarities and synergies between different functionalities... so much so that one cannot possibly tap it all in just one month, and instead one could fill whole albums just using one given synth, exploring all those different methods and doing those delightful experiments. And this is the case even when making sure you are playing by the spirit of the rules. The restrictions and exploration like this are not mutually exclusive, and instead of thinking of the rules as a burden - something to be circumvented in order to be really savvy, sneakily worked around of - it's more constructive to approach it as the honorable way.

When approaching it like this, honorably, occasionally even choosing to restrict yourself more than is actually necessary, in that spirit, not less - so that you can really, really zoom into that cosmos and pinpoint some part of the whole from that particular perspective you have chosen - you'll find that there is still a staggering amount of surprising capability and improbable sound to be found.

If you want to know what the instrument is technically capable of... you have so much to find, so much to explore, in all of that, and it is a great, inspiring challenge. To imply that an exploration like this somehow always means you therefore inevitably end up doing things that go against the spirit of the rules, again and again, when ever you spot the technical means of doing so... well... An implication like this has a disingenuous tinge to it. All that depth ready to be explored in a given instrument, and still one always chooses to go that way. It subtly hints that the explorer is lacking imagination.

It's actually a conscious choice, deciding not to zoom into some of those other numerous improbable and wonderful things the synth is capable of doing; things that aren't in conflict with the spirit of those (ultimately very simple to grasp) rules, and instead gravitating towards those specific things that stretch the boundaries of the "no sampling" idea, again and again.

There is just so much more to be enjoyed and uncovered and experimented with, in "what a synth is technically capable of."

[Guenon]

I must admit I love your approaches and it would be a loss not to see them. I had the idea already maybe to start a Single Sample Challenge the SSC (should be in the sampler forum). There the challenge would be to only use a single Sample as basic sound source and no restriction on the tools to mangle it. But with a restriction, that the original sample in its entirety is always used with a blurry rule that the original is still sort of recognizable…

Indeed, it's great that people do things like this, and it becomes a bore only when it's the approach that is repeatedly being pushed as "the explorer's way" in a challenge that explicitly rules out sampling . Like, maybe explore with all the other vast potential a synth offers, when in that challenge - which is about the only place where the sampling-like stuff is specifically controversial - and share experiments of that sampling nature where it doesn't so predictably and intentionally push against the spirit of things. Creating a new challenge which is all about mangling samples would be cool. I'd probably enjoy participating from time to time myself. If there's something audio related I can do better than synth stuff, it's that.

[Aro]

I'd love to learn about sample manipulation. I follow this guy on YouTube, Max Konyi, and runs these weekly competitions on various musical themes, then he records a tutorial on how he created his own track. One week he recorded the phrase "Doop and Loop" and the challenge was to create a 90 second song using only parts of that phrase. It was quite neat, hearing how drums, chords and melody could explode from a slightly tinkered vocal phrase.

[Yadrichik_Chaya]

Single Sample Challenge