KVR Audio

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:27 pm

This post spurred a PM telling me how f**ked up a person I am. Yeah, I told him in the starkest terms never darken my personal doorstep unbidden again. And he sent another.

jancivil wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:53 pm "because many of its chords are sus2 and sus4 - in other words, quartals."
a so-called sus2 or sus4 is not through itself a "quartal" harmony for use value. It is when it is, but def. doesn't have to be.
In perhaps the majority of the time the 1 2 5 is meant as exactly that. C D G may well have a different meaning than D G C in musical example.
The thought might be that the 2 is there in place of 3 so that the triad has no major or minor quality (losing the connotations), but the root is the root. You've insisted it is, per se, a second inversion of the structure D G C. Hard no.

C F G may well resolve to C E G, in which it behaves at least in part as a suspended 4-3 (we don't know it was suspended, and it's a pop chord or lead sheet convention outside of the voice-leading original intent). For that matter C D G may resolve to a tertial C E G and quartal practice nowhere in sight.

Frank Zappa came up with what he called 'the 2 chord' as per the explanation above. it's root, second, fifth, full stop.

I can't take analyzing anything from this viewpoint at all seriously. It's missing basic concepts, leaping to "quartal"...

Sorry to be the first one to break it to ya, but this idle musing is not to be taken seriously.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:33 pm

jancivil wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:27 pm This post spurred a PM telling me how f**ked up a person I am. Yeah, I told him in the starkest terms never darken my personal doorstep unbidden again. And he sent another.
jancivil wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:53 pm "because many of its chords are sus2 and sus4 - in other words, quartals."
a so-called sus2 or sus4 is not through itself a "quartal" harmony for use value. It is when it is, but def. doesn't have to be.
In perhaps the majority of the time the 1 2 5 is meant as exactly that. C D G may well have a different meaning than D G C in musical example.
The thought might be that the 2 is there in place of 3 so that the triad has no major or minor quality (losing the connotations), but the root is the root. You've insisted it is, per se, a second inversion of the structure D G C. Hard no.

C F G may well resolve to C E G, in which it behaves at least in part as a suspended 4-3 (we don't know it was suspended, and it's a pop chord or lead sheet convention outside of the voice-leading original intent). For that matter C D G may resolve to a tertial C E G and quartal practice nowhere in sight.

Frank Zappa came up with what he called 'the 2 chord' as per the explanation above. it's root, second, fifth, full stop.

I can't take analyzing anything from this viewpoint at all seriously. It's missing basic concepts, leaping to "quartal"...
You don't get respect by not being able at all to hear criticism. This warrants a lot of analysis of what's wrong with the writer? f**k this.

thank you for defining your threshold...duly noted

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:37 pm

This is about me now? What is with that post that warrants all this shit?

if you want to rerehearse old context, John, this is not that context.

as an observation of reality the OP misses crucial basic facts about two known objects in music going back centuries, enough to misrepresent.

As a moderator, you're regressing the thread to the slappy fight aspect like we can't move on?
The topic of quartal was brought in; what happens when people use that structure for a harmony?

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:04 pm

I did nothing wrong except post to you which every singe time I do you take offense...you really need to think about that because that isnt about me. And ftr that type of trying to get me to stop posting to you is beyond lame and a fail. My point still stands, that is a threshold you recognize and I appreciate it.

TribeOfHǫfuð · Post by **TribeOfHǫfuð** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:32 pm

Well, lesson to be learned for all is “Do not go to the internet and ask for opinions if you are only interested in affirmative ones and get hurt by criticism.”

Fortunately, I just got a challenge from my guitarplayer and am off to make some music. He wants us to “go more Viking”. Deeper and darker, and I have to see what I can do about it. BTW he is classical trained too, and we do fine with tonal language as is and note staffs. Very orthodox, yes, but also very communicable.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:48 pm

"you really need to think about that" <a PM telling me how f**ked up a person I am> would seem to be past about everyone's "threshold"

I can't go for someone with this poor of impulse control advising me at all. I'm not sure what warrants moderation here, except maybe the pagro 'intolerance of diversity'. I don't expect PMs to be moderated but I had good reason to have a problem.

Let alone the failure of self-awareness of a guy I just saw telling someone not to address posts to them, and doubling down on it. I have failings, yes, but you aren't doing anything I can respect in these threads, you're pissing in public afaic.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:53 pm

As a moderator, you're regressing the thread to the slappy fight aspect like we can't move on?

I did nothing wrong

You did exactly what I said there and kept at it. I'm saying it's wrong. Your opinion on it is no matter to me beyond that.

ANYWAY. here's a video which addresses the sus chords per quartal as I have:

the musical example in the beginning is a good example of quartal harmony in itself.
The vast majority of suggestions for me at YT are about how to get quartal voicings in regular tonal music it looks like.
Here the person even has a notation system which I think is pretty good. a four-note quartal aggregate frequently tops out at a 10th, which is a good quick indication at first sight.

shawshawraw · Post by **shawshawraw** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:03 pm

^ Nice vid!

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:09 pm

jancivil wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:48 pm "you really need to think about that" - this got to be about my 'threshold'.
you really need to quit telling people how they should be. And misconstructing meaning all the time.
I should think <this thing which gives you a pass> for your shit here, while you can't be arsed to have a thought about regressing the thread to that level.
At this point I'm trying to salvage a thread so it does something real about a subject brought in, but no you need to keep it on that level.

I don't go for someone with that poor of their own impulse control advising me at all. Let alone the failure of self-awareness of a guy I just saw telling someone not to address posts to them, and doubling down on it. I have failings, yes, but you aren't doing anything I can respect in these threads, you're pissing in public afaic.

Meanwhile, it still wont work Jan, you are just trying to get me to give up...I wont...the gas was turned off Jan and I am doing my job, I will keep doing my job despite your abuse /end

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:24 pm

How is regressing a thread to a personal disagreement doing your job? Bullshit. You're always right, you're everybody's boss you think and you can't stop your own impulse in doing this. Childish af. You disrespect all of us with this.

here's a great example of real quartal approach to building chords

click on the URL if you wish to avoid a minute of preface to the thing.

the first chord should maybe have a tertial identity, A^7#4, although A G# C# D# inverts to a quartal job as well. I think the tertial name is apt because I don't think I want to recognize inversions, rather to keep it simple.
The next chord is Eb Ab Db F. he likes that one, and it's one I adopted immediately in '79 after obtaing a copy of Zoot Allures.

Another one is: Ab D G C E, also seen as A Eb Ab Db F.
most everybody is shoehorning these into eg., min11. A couple of things would tend to be named in thirds.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:26 pm

jancivil wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:24 pm How is regressing a thread to a personal disagreement doing your job? Bullshit. You're always right,

I posted 7 words and you have gone off...wow

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:29 pm

how is that responsive to the question? Do_you_think_it's_a_good_idea to keep disrupting the thread for this slappy fight? You're seeking to game the situation so doing that seems right, to you. Are you convinced yet. Is it better to get back to talking about 'quartal', which I find very interesting and that more people should know about it, or to just keep the thread you and me and incessantly rerehearsing old beef? practically rhetorical because it appears you have a pronounced preference for the latter.
I suppose you lied with the gesture "out", and that you're the person to let the other have the last word and be happy with that.
grow tf up FFS

TribeOfHǫfuð · Post by **TribeOfHǫfuð** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:43 pm

Jan, suspended? For what? Does not seem obvious to me. I see no abuse, only disagreements. Hardly a reason to get suspended. Where is the fire?

Frankly, I did not know what to do either with the "thank you for defining your threshold...duly noted." Seemed non-transparent to me, ambiguous, if not sarcastic. Had to shrug shoulders and move on.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:49 pm

so now you will continue it?...go ahead...you will be next...again I am going to make this clear...YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HARASS ME FROM DOING MY JOB...it is and has been beyond clear this is the intent, every time I say something to you this is what I get (just you)...and it wont work...rules apply to you too...anytime it happens I am keenly aware and will respond accordingly.

edit: FTR my original comment of 7 words deemed no response and should have been appreciated...I only did my job

TribeOfHǫfuð · Post by **TribeOfHǫfuð** » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:56 pm

Wow. Thread has gone completely loony now. Suit yourself. Your life, your nightmares. I am fine. Banned from here by bullies or not.

And these "you will be next" outlaw biker-like threats do not bite on me. It is but threats of censorship and powerabuse telling most about him who threats. As if our inner thoughts could be censored and silenced as to our opinion on the way things are runned here. THAT won´t work if anything. Better find a reason to ban us for good, then.

"Solarstone - Release": how would you analyze the harmony?