Worrying about using old samples and the legal ramifications...

[Hink]

Melomood basically hit the nail on the head. But I would argue that, in one form or another, all music is derivative. Therefore it makes NO SENSE whatsoever to be anal about how such and such created a piece of music, or the particular methodologies a genre of music employs. Sampled or composed... what matters is creativity and the final outcome. Why can't we agree on that?

The idea that composed music is somehow superior, or more 'correct' than sampled music is nonsensical. Sometimes the only means to create a certain sound or texture is to sample. Unless, for example, you have/can afford a basement full of vintage instruments and synthesizers, not to mention know how to use them as masterfully as the old did lol... composition isn't practically viable in some instances.

I concur that some people are extremely lazy with sampling, which I too disagree with. However, if I can play an entire octave of notes on an instrument and then some, but I can also do the same by chopping up a sample into infinite parts (not to mention modulate and change until the cows come home)... where is the difference exactly? How is composing "more unique" or "original"?

90% of composed music that I listen to in the modern era is boring, cheesy and hella synthetic. And sometimes I have to feel sorry for the composers because they feel as though they are validated, just because they spent lots of time on it "composing". The outcome = trash. That doesn't mean that composed music is not capable of being brilliant, of course I'm not arguing that, I'm simply arguing that the means never justify the end. What justifies the end is actual sound quality, level of creativity etc.

did? Your experience differs from others, I am 62 years old...when I started playing the only samplers were knitted by old ladies and hung on their walls (I am in my bedroom on my bed, there are four electric guitars within 8' and one tube amp...you should see my studio )

Here you have a lot of people with different experiences and different expectations...a lot of people produce suggesting there is a product, their expectation is a financial gain. They might not want to do your work. Other people for popularity and some like myself who play for themselves and to us it's personal.

Composing is just another vehicle for one to express themselves, perhaps the validation you're thinking comes from the time they spent composing is misplaced...I suspect the validation comes from putting into practice the years of education they took to learn their craft. You know just like a hip hop artist learning to be a great sampler, or an old rock & roll gitar player like me (or any other artist). It's a form of expression in a language they understand.

There is no better method, no best genre, no better or best music, there is however best for you. For years here on KvR my sig was the measure of one's talent is not a measure against the talents of others but a measure of one's own growth as an artist.

You can spend the next 20 years sitting here trying to convince everyone your choice is the best...if you do...then what?

Do you, let others be themselves

[t3toooo]

....sitting for years in front of the Computer , racking my brain on how to create a Drumset that sounds convincing by myself, NOT taken from a record and simply cutted...

Erm, what did I wanted to say?

[Hink]

I use to have a sampled set of pots and pans from someone here

[Memsterrr]

Melomood basically hit the nail on the head. But I would argue that, in one form or another, all music is derivative. Therefore it makes NO SENSE whatsoever to be anal about how such and such created a piece of music, or the particular methodologies a genre of music employs. Sampled or composed... what matters is creativity and the final outcome. Why can't we agree on that?

The idea that composed music is somehow superior, or more 'correct' than sampled music is nonsensical. Sometimes the only means to create a certain sound or texture is to sample. Unless, for example, you have/can afford a basement full of vintage instruments and synthesizers, not to mention know how to use them as masterfully as the old did lol... composition isn't practically viable in some instances.

I concur that some people are extremely lazy with sampling, which I too disagree with. However, if I can play an entire octave of notes on an instrument and then some, but I can also do the same by chopping up a sample into infinite parts (not to mention modulate and change until the cows come home)... where is the difference exactly? How is composing "more unique" or "original"?

90% of composed music that I listen to in the modern era is boring, cheesy and hella synthetic. And sometimes I have to feel sorry for the composers because they feel as though they are validated, just because they spent lots of time on it "composing". The outcome = trash. That doesn't mean that composed music is not capable of being brilliant, of course I'm not arguing that, I'm simply arguing that the means never justify the end. What justifies the end is actual sound quality, level of creativity etc.

did? Your experience differs from others, I am 62 years old...when I started playing the only samplers were knitted by old ladies and hung on their walls (I am in my bedroom on my bed, there are four electric guitars within 8' and one tube amp...you should see my studio )

Here you have a lot of people with different experiences and different expectations...a lot of people produce suggesting there is a product, their expectation is a financial gain. They might not want to do your work. Other people for popularity and some like myself who play for themselves and to us it's personal.

Composing is just another vehicle for one to express themselves, perhaps the validation you're thinking comes from the time they spent composing is misplaced...I suspect the validation comes from putting into practice the years of education they took to learn their craft. You know just like a hip hop artist learning to be a great sampler, or an old rock & roll gitar player like me (or any other artist). It's a form of expression in a language they understand.

There is no better method, no best genre, no better or best music, there is however best for you. For years here on KvR my sig was the measure of one's talent is not a measure against the talents of others but a measure of one's own growth as an artist.

You can spend the next 20 years sitting here trying to convince everyone your choice is the best...if you do...then what?

Do you, let others be themselves

Astutely said, and I absolutely agree with you on the point about self-expression. Where I disagree is in the larger social domain.

Just as we can assign certain 'values' to individual artists, I think that the same can be done with entire genres. That is to say, I disagree that there can be no objective metrics for measuring the particular greatness of a musical genre, against another.

First and foremost, I think that music should be representative and inclusive, regardless of obvious barriers (such as language). Indeed, I personally think that the most important measure of any musical genre's greatness is its social impact, and how few people it alienates. This is why I stated that Hip Hop is the greatest genre to me, since practically everyone in the world enjoys or partakes in it (a slight exaggeration but you get what I mean).

Take the example of certain types of country music. How many people can actually relate to them? How many people can relate to a hillbilly singing about the mundanities of everyday life? Moreover, there's no potential for progress or growth there. I don't think that music is something that is unimportant, sitting in the periphery, waiting to be called upon for distraction or recreational purposes. I think that music is at the very heart of society, and can be a great driver of progress on all fronts.

I always think about this Ernst Fischer quote when I consider the social role and impact of music:

"In a decaying society, art, if it is truthful, must also reflect decay. And unless it wants to break faith with its social function, art must show the world as changeable. And help to change it.”

[t3toooo]

I use to have a sampled set of pots and pans from someone here

...yeah, anyhow. Music should not sound like "pots and pans" ( only by purpose )
There is a lot more to it.

[elxsound]

The problem is that you don’t seem to know other genres as well as you should if you’re going argue something else is better. You’ve put yourself in a very limited box…

I know a guy who thinks New Wave is the greatest genre. He knows nothing else so who could argue that he’s wrong? If he’s not interested and he’s happy so be it, but he’s also not trying to convince anyone his favorite is somehow measurable. He gets it that he likes it.

Even on this same forum there’s lots stuck in their musical time warp of a box. They’ll complain like you that all modern music sucks (never realizing a generation before them said the same thing about the music they revere).

Ignorance is bliss.

Country music is not all hillbilly anything and it’s changed massively in the past decade. You still might not like it as it’s aligned with the latest pop music, buts it’s changed.

You really need to listen to more styles. You’re also gonna find that quite a few on this forum don’t share your same sentiments about hip hop or it’s social impact. Again, like you and other styles of music they haven’t been listening to everything and have very negative views about hip hop (not unlike your hillbilly comment).

[Hink]

Melomood basically hit the nail on the head. But I would argue that, in one form or another, all music is derivative. Therefore it makes NO SENSE whatsoever to be anal about how such and such created a piece of music, or the particular methodologies a genre of music employs. Sampled or composed... what matters is creativity and the final outcome. Why can't we agree on that?

The idea that composed music is somehow superior, or more 'correct' than sampled music is nonsensical. Sometimes the only means to create a certain sound or texture is to sample. Unless, for example, you have/can afford a basement full of vintage instruments and synthesizers, not to mention know how to use them as masterfully as the old did lol... composition isn't practically viable in some instances.

I concur that some people are extremely lazy with sampling, which I too disagree with. However, if I can play an entire octave of notes on an instrument and then some, but I can also do the same by chopping up a sample into infinite parts (not to mention modulate and change until the cows come home)... where is the difference exactly? How is composing "more unique" or "original"?

90% of composed music that I listen to in the modern era is boring, cheesy and hella synthetic. And sometimes I have to feel sorry for the composers because they feel as though they are validated, just because they spent lots of time on it "composing". The outcome = trash. That doesn't mean that composed music is not capable of being brilliant, of course I'm not arguing that, I'm simply arguing that the means never justify the end. What justifies the end is actual sound quality, level of creativity etc.

did? Your experience differs from others, I am 62 years old...when I started playing the only samplers were knitted by old ladies and hung on their walls (I am in my bedroom on my bed, there are four electric guitars within 8' and one tube amp...you should see my studio )

Here you have a lot of people with different experiences and different expectations...a lot of people produce suggesting there is a product, their expectation is a financial gain. They might not want to do your work. Other people for popularity and some like myself who play for themselves and to us it's personal.

Composing is just another vehicle for one to express themselves, perhaps the validation you're thinking comes from the time they spent composing is misplaced...I suspect the validation comes from putting into practice the years of education they took to learn their craft. You know just like a hip hop artist learning to be a great sampler, or an old rock & roll gitar player like me (or any other artist). It's a form of expression in a language they understand.

There is no better method, no best genre, no better or best music, there is however best for you. For years here on KvR my sig was the measure of one's talent is not a measure against the talents of others but a measure of one's own growth as an artist.

You can spend the next 20 years sitting here trying to convince everyone your choice is the best...if you do...then what?

Do you, let others be themselves

Astutely said, and I absolutely agree with you on the point about self-expression. Where I disagree is in the larger social domain.

Just as we can assign certain 'values' to individual artists, I think that the same can be done with entire genres. That is to say, I disagree that there can be no objective metrics for measuring the particular greatness of a musical genre, against another.

First and foremost, I think that music should be representative and inclusive, regardless of obvious barriers (such as language). Indeed, I personally think that the most important measure of any musical genre's greatness is its social impact, and how few people it alienates. This is why I stated that Hip Hop is the greatest genre to me, since practically everyone in the world enjoys or partakes in it (a slight exaggeration but you get what I mean).

Take the example of certain types of country music. How many people can actually relate to them? How many people can relate to a hillbilly singing about the mundanities of everyday life? Moreover, there's no potential for progress or growth there. I don't think that music is something that is unimportant, sitting in the periphery, waiting to be called upon for distraction or recreational purposes. I think that music is at the very heart of society, and can be a great driver of progress on all fronts.

I always think about this Ernst Fischer quote when I consider the social role and impact of music:

"In a decaying society, art, if it is truthful, must also reflect decay. And unless it wants to break faith with its social function, art must show the world as changeable. And help to change it.”

Thats quite a post, what you ought to do with it is copy, put it in an envelope and open in 15 years.

I live in Maine, in the service I was stationed in Texas...I dont like country. I would love to know where you came up with that thought, how many can relate (apparently quite a few as it is a 2 billion dollar a year industry). While I dont like listening to much country music I do live in the country and quite frankly one of my all time favorite shows was hee haw. Hillbilly singing about how mundane everyday life is? Did you really say that?

Why would anyone want to continue a conversation with you after such an offensive statement and one that belies your own words? Believe it or not there are many people who do not relate to the hip hop style, I am one...
I dont care for it, I dont listen to it, there isnt much there for me to relate to.

Another thing about maine and music, there is beautiful music everywhere...I grew up with a camp on a lake, we had loons that nested on our land. I am a very fortunate man, for decades I went to sleep summer nights listening the beuatiful songs of the loons on the lake. Today I hear them on the lake near my house, they are but one of many species of animals that are not man making beautiful music...tell me what objective metrics for measuring will that fit into?

Then you said this "I don't think that music is something that is unimportant, sitting in the periphery, waiting to be called upon for distraction or recreational purposes."

You have a very narrow viewpoint, do you make that call too? What my music is?
let me explain this, 50 years of being a guitar player...before that in grade school and middle school I played trumpet. It isnt sitting in the periphery...it has been the forefront of my life, it has always been my life, I am not motivated by money but I will say music has brought more to my life than really anything else, hindsight is 20/20 and trust me...I aint lying, just this week in fact it served me well.

You dont have the right to tell me or anyone else what is great, by attempting to do so you have alienated a lot of people...you said

"Indeed, I personally think that the most important measure of any musical genre's greatness is its social impact, and how few people it alienates."

oops

TBH I suspect you're just having a go here

[Memsterrr]

The problem is that you don’t seem to know other genres as well as you should if you’re going argue something else is better. You’ve put yourself in a very limited box…

I know a guy who thinks New Wave is the greatest genre. He knows nothing else so who could argue that he’s wrong? If he’s not interested and he’s happy so be it, but he’s also not trying to convince anyone his favorite is somehow measurable. He gets it that he likes it.

Even on this same forum there’s lots stuck in their musical time warp of a box. They’ll complain like you that all modern music sucks (never realizing a generation before them said the same thing about the music they revere).

Ignorance is bliss.

Country music is not all hillbilly anything and it’s changed massively in the past decade. You still might not like it as it’s aligned with the latest pop music, buts it’s changed.

You really need to listen to more styles. You’re also gonna find that quite a few on this forum don’t share your same sentiments about hip hop or it’s social impact. Again, like you and other styles of music they haven’t been listening to everything and have very negative views about hip hop (not unlike your hillbilly comment).

I actually have or had* a very broad range of music I listened to and appreciated. In fact, as someone who samples to make beats, I'd say that I still do (after all, I don't sample only one genre of music). And If I didn't appreciate other genres, how could i draw inspiration to make beats, since these other types of music, form the basis of my beats?

Ultimately, however, I find myself listening to instrumental Hip Hop over 90% of the time these days.

You could say I'm a very cynical bastard that hates the world (though i prefer the term "a realist" as I assure you my cynicism is based on objective reasons)... I'm also a sucker for certain kinds of rhythm. You might be surprised to know that I have spells of listening to hardcore punk, and certain offshoots of Rock music. Again, my musical preferences are very much based on the emergencies of the world, and society.

With all the doom and gloom in this world, not to mention forthcoming catastrophe, I am often irritated and outraged by music that pretends everything is 'fine.' Music that does't speak truth to power, or touch on important issues. Music that perpetuates the status quo.

That is the real reason for my selectiveness. But I understand your point, and appreciate your concern.

[Memsterrr]

Melomood basically hit the nail on the head. But I would argue that, in one form or another, all music is derivative. Therefore it makes NO SENSE whatsoever to be anal about how such and such created a piece of music, or the particular methodologies a genre of music employs. Sampled or composed... what matters is creativity and the final outcome. Why can't we agree on that?

The idea that composed music is somehow superior, or more 'correct' than sampled music is nonsensical. Sometimes the only means to create a certain sound or texture is to sample. Unless, for example, you have/can afford a basement full of vintage instruments and synthesizers, not to mention know how to use them as masterfully as the old did lol... composition isn't practically viable in some instances.

I concur that some people are extremely lazy with sampling, which I too disagree with. However, if I can play an entire octave of notes on an instrument and then some, but I can also do the same by chopping up a sample into infinite parts (not to mention modulate and change until the cows come home)... where is the difference exactly? How is composing "more unique" or "original"?

90% of composed music that I listen to in the modern era is boring, cheesy and hella synthetic. And sometimes I have to feel sorry for the composers because they feel as though they are validated, just because they spent lots of time on it "composing". The outcome = trash. That doesn't mean that composed music is not capable of being brilliant, of course I'm not arguing that, I'm simply arguing that the means never justify the end. What justifies the end is actual sound quality, level of creativity etc.

did? Your experience differs from others, I am 62 years old...when I started playing the only samplers were knitted by old ladies and hung on their walls (I am in my bedroom on my bed, there are four electric guitars within 8' and one tube amp...you should see my studio )

Here you have a lot of people with different experiences and different expectations...a lot of people produce suggesting there is a product, their expectation is a financial gain. They might not want to do your work. Other people for popularity and some like myself who play for themselves and to us it's personal.

Composing is just another vehicle for one to express themselves, perhaps the validation you're thinking comes from the time they spent composing is misplaced...I suspect the validation comes from putting into practice the years of education they took to learn their craft. You know just like a hip hop artist learning to be a great sampler, or an old rock & roll gitar player like me (or any other artist). It's a form of expression in a language they understand.

There is no better method, no best genre, no better or best music, there is however best for you. For years here on KvR my sig was the measure of one's talent is not a measure against the talents of others but a measure of one's own growth as an artist.

You can spend the next 20 years sitting here trying to convince everyone your choice is the best...if you do...then what?

Do you, let others be themselves

Astutely said, and I absolutely agree with you on the point about self-expression. Where I disagree is in the larger social domain.

Just as we can assign certain 'values' to individual artists, I think that the same can be done with entire genres. That is to say, I disagree that there can be no objective metrics for measuring the particular greatness of a musical genre, against another.

First and foremost, I think that music should be representative and inclusive, regardless of obvious barriers (such as language). Indeed, I personally think that the most important measure of any musical genre's greatness is its social impact, and how few people it alienates. This is why I stated that Hip Hop is the greatest genre to me, since practically everyone in the world enjoys or partakes in it (a slight exaggeration but you get what I mean).

Take the example of certain types of country music. How many people can actually relate to them? How many people can relate to a hillbilly singing about the mundanities of everyday life? Moreover, there's no potential for progress or growth there. I don't think that music is something that is unimportant, sitting in the periphery, waiting to be called upon for distraction or recreational purposes. I think that music is at the very heart of society, and can be a great driver of progress on all fronts.

I always think about this Ernst Fischer quote when I consider the social role and impact of music:

"In a decaying society, art, if it is truthful, must also reflect decay. And unless it wants to break faith with its social function, art must show the world as changeable. And help to change it.”

Thats quite a post, what you ought to do with it is copy, put it in an envelope and open in 15 years.

I live in Maine, in the service I was stationed in Texas...I dont like country. I would love to know where you came up with that thought, how many can relate (apparently quite a few as it is a 2 billion dollar a year industry). While I dont like listening to much country music I do live in the country and quite frankly one of my all time favorite shows was hee haw. Hillbilly singing about how mundane everyday life is? Did you really say that?

Why would anyone want to continue a conversation with you after such an offensive statement and one that belies your own words? Believe it or not there are many people who do not relate to the hip hop style, I am one...
I dont care for it, I dont listen to it, there isnt much there for me to relate to.

Another thing about maine and music, there is beautiful music everywhere...I grew up with a camp on a lake, we had loons that nested on our land. I am a very fortunate man, for decades I went to sleep summer nights listening the beuatiful songs of the loons on the lake. Today I hear them on the lake near my house, they are but one of many species of animals that are not man making beautiful music...tell me what objective metrics for measuring will that fit into?

Then you said this "I don't think that music is something that is unimportant, sitting in the periphery, waiting to be called upon for distraction or recreational purposes."

You have a very narrow viewpoint, do you make that call too? What my music is?
let me explain this, 50 years of being a guitar player...before that in grade school and middle school I played trumpet. It isnt sitting in the periphery...it has been the forefront of my life, it has always been my life, I am not motivated by money but I will say music has brought more to my life than really anything else, hindsight is 20/20 and trust me...I aint lying, just this week in fact it served me well.

You dont have the right to tell me or anyone else what is great, by attempting to do so you have alienated a lot of people...you said

"Indeed, I personally think that the most important measure of any musical genre's greatness is its social impact, and how few people it alienates."

oops

TBH I suspect you're just having a go here

I don't give the slighest shit what you think about my motivations. For someone who places so much importance on "self-expression" you sure seem invested in trying to censor and berate me? How ironic is that?

And I qualified my statement about country music by saying "certain kinds of country music" which yes, is simply hillbillys singing about absolutely f**k all...

[Hink]

wow that got hostile quick...I havent censored a thing. I did post IBL when this started to get racist, trust me there will not be another warning in a thread that appears to simply be an attractive nuisance.

[Memsterrr]

I don't usually like to question people's intellectual honesty as I think it's a cop out, but gaslighting much? So now you're accusing me of being racist simply because I pointed out that there is a segment of American society that have nothing to offer the rest of society? Buddy, that's not racism. That's common knowledge!

[Hink]

now you're accusing me of being racist simply because I pointed out that there is a segment of American society that have nothing to offer the rest of society?