Drum Sample Library Questions

[RayC]

In comparing drum kits contained in hardware, with plug 'n' play drum libraries like the SR stuff, and with the new "Hyper Reality" stuff like BFD and DFH, has got me wondering a few things...

In preparing a "plug 'n' play" type drum library (or those in hardware), would things like:

- compression,
- EQ,
- Ambience (overhead or room sounds)
- Effects

be rolled into each sample/hit?

The SR/M-Audio Reality Drums, for example, seems to have stereo kick drums, which only seems to make sense if an ambience or overhead is mixed in with the direct kick.

These types of libraries seem to "fit" a little easier into a mix, and I'm just wondering if my suspicions about what makes them tick is right.

I'm not fishing for trade secrets or anything, just trying to understand things a little better. And I don't mean to diminish anything by calling it "plug 'n' play". What I mean by that, is you pull it up and it just works without too much mucking about.

Any insights appreciated.

Ray

[Squids]

Oh, okay. Well, the benefit of something like BFD is that you can do some engineering level mixing of the mics if you know what you are doing. If you don't then it is an opportunity to miss what you might really be after. Whereas flipping through tons of different "plug n play" (as you call it) kits sampled with different rooms and a wide assortment of different sounding drums might get you to where you want to be faster or with more choices sonically.

I happen to like both approaches. I like the idea of giving people the raw material to make their own mix kits. But, I also like the idea of giving them something that is likely to just fit in the mix and have a preserved sound that we know (or feel anyway) is a good one!

You are right btw about kicks being in stereo because it is usually an AKG D12 or an EV RE20 (or other kick mic) direct mixed in with a good set of overheads and the rest of the kit's ambience as well as the room together that makes it sound REAL. If you just sampled the kick on its own with no kit around it and no overheads it would be clean but it wouldn't necessarily be so hot. There'd be less chance of it sitting in the mix being convincing as a real drum kit. But, it depends. There's no one rule on it. If it sounds good it sounds good and it doesn't matter if it is mono with a single mic or stereo with 20 mics. As long as it still sounds good then this is what matters the most.

So, actually, this IS the most important spec. Because if you think about it all the listener hears is the final resulting audio! They don't care if you had mixing control or not! That part is over and it's now an audio recording! So, does it have the best character for the tune? Does it sit in the mix? Was it programmed with feel and good groove?

Of course some of that always comes down to the programmer/player too.

[RayC]

Thanks, Squids.

That's pretty much what I suspected.

This brings up an interesting follow-up...

When using Reality Drums, I've been converting the MIDI triggered samples to audio in Pro Tools before mixing. For the sake of a sane number of track, I take all the kick variations and record them to a single MONO track. Same thing with snare hit, edge, rim, stick, rolls, and anything else "snare related" to a MONO track. Each crash to an individual track, toms to a stereo track.

Would you recommend recording each of these elements to a STEREO track to maintain the space around each kit piece?

Do you agree or disagree with combining the various same elements (kick-R, kick-L, Alt kick-R, Alt kick-L) to a single MONO (or STEREO) track?

Thanks for your input. (And anyone else that would care to comment )

P.S. I have recently aquired BFD, and I've been working on getting it to sound as good as Reality Drums - hence my original question.

Ray

[Squids]

Yeah, I have BFD and I love it. But, I am an engineer. It has a certain type of sound and I am a big believer in "you can never have too many drums". BFD isn't for everyone but it sure is cool for someone who likes to mess around with the mix on an ambient kit.

As far as doing what you're doing, I think it's good to record them to separate tracks. That's fine. Combining to mono maybe not though. It depends. If it sounds good to you still then why not? But typically you will lose the beauty of what the overheads captured and spacial relativity etc.