Software Synths VS. Digital Hardware Synths.

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
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KVRAF
5947 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:28 am

I use an analog washing machine (because it was cheaper) :D

Do you also think that vanilla is subjectively tedious compared to chocolate, or are you willing to acknowledge that some things are just a matter of personal taste?

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addled muppet weed
86392 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:30 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:54 am
Biggest workflow deficiency for me would be that, once bounced down, you can't change the sound anymore. If you want that, you have to record it again. And, if you then, after adding some more sounds, realize that it's still not perfect, you have to bounce again. And so on. Preeeetty unflexible compared to just tweaking some sound parameters on screen.

"On screen" is a good cue, when I remind my time with the Waldorf Blofeld... quite a let down with so few parameters, compared to almost beijng able to control the whole synth from one page in Largo.

Well, going around in circles here. What I just can't understand is how you can seriously consider those obvious deficiency as subjective, when it's a total pain in the ass compared. It's more like washing your clothes in the river, instead of using a washing machine. Albeit more fun and inspiring. ;)
one thing id question, what's the problem with having to re record if you change your mind about a sound?

i get it if you are in some major hurry with deadlines, but most of us aren't.
so ill take a bit more work if it means as you yourself say, it's more fun and more importantly inspiring!

that said, i also enjoy playing around with software. both are a means to the same end for me, and i have the freedom to do both :)

like foosnark, i tend to record straight to 2 track, be it hard or soft, it's a process that i enjoy, the risks inherent with it excite me, ie losing my way, and having to tame it.

if you are ever offered the çhance to stand at a wall of modulars and just improvise, please take it.
you may see what it is that i enjoy
whereas i get that most people, it's about the end product, a finished track.
i can see why the tools i favour, might not be the best for this.

i guess, the reason we still discuss it, is because it's interesting to find out what others do, but it's shouldn't be a this versus that, as it's not a contest, they're both just toys/tools we use :)

KVRAF
30020 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:35 am

foosnark wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:28 am
I use an analog washing machine (because it was cheaper) :D

Do you also think that vanilla is subjectively tedious compared to chocolate, or are you willing to acknowledge that some things are just a matter of personal taste?
I really don't know how else I should make it clear to you that there are things which require more work, are less flexible, and more tedious, and not up to "personal taste". See, I even said that I understand that hardware has a certain attraction. It's just that software is less tedious and more flexible in many ways, and that is not a matter of personal taste, but, it's obejctively less tedious, easier to use, and more flexible.

Well... I knew that this would take some doing, so, not sure why I even got involved. :) Some things are simply impossible to impart, when there's so much irrational personal involvement. Sorry. Not meant personal. I even understand that you can build up a deeper relationship with something material. That's how we humans are.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRAF
30020 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:36 am

vurt wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:30 am
one thing id question, what's the problem with having to re record if you change your mind about a sound?
It's more work than just tweaking it on the fly. :shrug: You have as many instances available as your computer can handle as well, so you don't have to record all the time either. :shrug:
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

KVRAF
30020 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:39 am

Well, let's not argue. :) You guys like hardware, and have adapted to the more tedious workflow. That's all. It's "different" for you, not more tedious. While, objectively, it actually is more tedious.

Some people live in Alaska, as self supporters. They vastly prefer that life to the life in "civilized" cities. That's fine. But, it doesn't change that it's a lot harder and more tedious. It's just more "pure" to them, and I can understand that.
Last edited by chk071 on Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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addled muppet weed
86392 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:40 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:36 am
vurt wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:30 am
one thing id question, what's the problem with having to re record if you change your mind about a sound?
It's more work than just tweaking it on the fly. :shrug: You have as many instances available as your computer can handle as well, so you don't have to record all the time either. :shrug:
but im in no hurry and enjoy the noodling and playing :)

KVRAF
30020 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:41 am

Fair enough. :)
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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addled muppet weed
86392 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:42 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:39 am
Well, let's not argue. :) You guys like hardware, and have adapted to the more tedious workflow. That's all. It's "different" for you, not more tedious. While, objectively, it actually is more tedious.
im not arguing, im chatting, not trying to change your mind :hihi:

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KVRAF
5947 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:01 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:35 am
I really don't know how else I should make it clear to you that there are things which require more work, are less flexible, and more tedious, and not up to "personal taste".
"Tedious" is literally a way of saying that some aspect of a thing is not to your personal taste.

I do not find working with hardware to be slow or boring. Therefore it is not tedious to me. Therefore, it is not universally tedious. Therefore, it is not objective. [edit, fixed a word, too much multitasking here]

You can't take something to a scientist and ask them to put it on a tediometer to tell you how tedious it is.

The one thing that can be tedious is, when you buy a hardware synth, you have to wait for it to ship, you can't just download it. :hihi: (*)

Hardware doesn't require "more work" except maybe when you set it up, you physically have to move an object. Hey, exercise is good for you.

Hardware is less flexible than software in some areas. Software is less flexible than hardware in other areas... although honestly, this gets more into modular territory when the thread was supposed to be about digital hardware, so, whatevs.
chk071 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:35 am
there's so much irrational personal involvement.
It's music, there damn well better be irrational personal involvement or what's the point? :D

(*) The other thing that can be tedious is threads about hardware vs. software, so in the name of reducing tedium, I'm done with it

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addled muppet weed
86392 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:09 pm

foosnark wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:01 pm

(*) The other thing that can be tedious is threads about hardware vs. software, so in the name of reducing tedium, I'm done with it
they are interesting, to a point, when it becomes an argument, rather than a chat among people who enjoy synths, then it gets tedious.
chatting about what we love, shouldn't be confrontational? it makes no sense :lol:

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KVRAF
5947 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:27 pm

I will say there are some definite examples where I do find a software synth faster, and generally more rewarding, to work with than hardware. OPS7 vs a DX7 for instance.

(But then, for FM I also really like Akemie's Castle, or Shapeshifter, or Ensemble Oscillator, which all allow for different kinds of flexibility that I don't get with OPS7! Or patching my Minibrute or filters for analog FM. And meanwhile, OPS7 has more operators and can be polyphonic.)

KVRAF
30020 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:36 pm

foosnark wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:01 pm
"Tedious" is literally a way of saying that some aspect of a thing is not to your personal taste.
My bad. I just took a look in my online dictionary, and it looks like the word I was rather looking for is inconvenient, cumbersome. I didn't know that "tedious" rather relates to annoying.
Plugins and a DAW. On an operating system. Which runs on a computer.

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KVRAF
5947 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:20 pm

Inconvenient and cumbersome are opinions too. :D

Granted, there are hardware synths that almost everyone would agree: software would be easier. But:
- some people hate software and refuse to use it. Not me! But those people are easy to find on synth forums that aren't KVR.
- there are hardware synths that are pretty well designed and easy to work with.
- there are software synths that are poorly designed, and thus cumbersome or inconvenient

For the most part, if I find a hardware synth inconvenient it either doesn't get bought in the first place, or gets resold.
And if I find a software synth inconvenient... the same.

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addled muppet weed
86392 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:50 pm

foosnark wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:27 pm
I will say there are some definite examples where I do find a software synth faster, and generally more rewarding, to work with than hardware. OPS7 vs a DX7 for instance.
yeah there's software i use as much as my hardware. admittedly, not a huge amount, but a decent selection.

as you mentioned, software does have the benefit of polyphony, which if you use a lot of pads, is going to be essential, im more in to mono layers, then reverb and delay to fill out a space, but when i want a chord pad, of course something like absynth, is preferable to my ms2000, as it's more aligned sonically with what im doing these days :)

some days i just drop dice in to a tibetan bowl :shrug:

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addled muppet weed
86392 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:55 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:36 pm
foosnark wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:01 pm
"Tedious" is literally a way of saying that some aspect of a thing is not to your personal taste.
My bad. I just took a look in my online dictionary, and it looks like the word I was rather looking for is inconvenient, cumbersome. I didn't know that "tedious" rather relates to annoying.
:lol: yeah tedious is boring.
you can call hardware synths and modular a lot of things, boring isn't one of them :hihi:

makes more sense now, even if i don't agree, i can understand why some people might view it that way :)

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