KVR Audio

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:37 am

What a bunch of ungrateful arseholes you lot are. Does it not occur to you that VST wouldn't exist without Steinberg? They invented the f**king thing, which has enabled us all to do stuff we couldn't have dreamed of 25 years ago, so how about you respect their right to control it however they please?

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:55 am

Nah, f**k em

Markus Krause · Post by **Markus Krause** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:59 am

20 years ago apart from VST there did also exist a vast range of other competing plugin formats like DirectX etc. So I wouldn't say Steinberg 'invented' something revolutionary. It's just the format that gained the widest popularity.
From the technical aspect a VST plugin is just a dll file. Dynamic-link-libraries (.dll files) exist since Windows exists. It's common practice in software-development.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic-link_library
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_plugin

McLilith · Post by **McLilith** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:10 am

vurt wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:49 pm im off to start a company "vurts spaghetti treats"
vst for short.

and there's nothing steinberg can do about it

You should start a electronic musical act (or maybe a production studio) and name it something like "Vurtual Synthesis Technology".

They can keep their "Virtual" stuff. You have something better. You have "Vurtual"!

DollyNipples · Post by **DollyNipples** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:11 am

BONES wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:37 am What a bunch of ungrateful arseholes you lot are. Does it not occur to you that VST wouldn't exist without Steinberg? They invented the f**king thing, which has enabled us all to do stuff we couldn't have dreamed of 25 years ago, so how about you respect their right to control it however they please?

I understand that VST wouldn't exist without Steinberg. I just wish they wouldn't have pulled the entire site - just had them rename it or something. We aren't ungrateful; we are just very angry that they took away a site with a lot of useful links to awesome plugins and hosts. I do see your point, but I wish they had gone about it in a different way. The site was essentially forced to ghost everyone, so people (including myself) are quite irate.

Dirtgrain · Post by **Dirtgrain** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:47 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:37 am What a bunch of ungrateful arseholes you lot are.

Check yourself.

syntonica · Post by **syntonica** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:52 pm

sjm wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:01 am
FrogsInPants wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:04 pm I've seen the word "copyright" a few times in this thread. It's not a copyright issue. It's a trademark issue. I'm no expert, but my understanding is that one aspect of trademark law is a requirement to defend a trademark to prevent trademark dilution which could limit your control over the mark in the future. A lot of people are acting like they're just being shitty, but it may be they're acting out of rational business interests given the legal incentives of trademark law.
This. They need to be able to demonstrate that they have defended their trademark for future cases. Nowt to do with copyright.

As for VST on the NYSE - the trademark only applies to similar fields where there is the risk of consumer confusion/diluting the brand. So a VST name for bars of soap would be fine. When you apply for a trademark, you need to specify what area the trademark applies to (e.g. software, or whatever).

This is why Apple (computing and recording) existed in parallel for years, and why it only became an issue when Apple started selling music. It's only then that the Beatles got active because Apple (computers) were competing in the same space.

I think it could be argued that the horse has long bolted and they're just getting around to closing the gate. VST is pretty much now a generic term for music plugin.

kinwie · Post by **kinwie** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:03 pm

Markus Krause wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:59 am 20 years ago apart from VST there did also exist a vast range of other competing plugin formats like DirectX etc. So I wouldn't say Steinberg 'invented' something revolutionary. It's just the format that gained the widest popularity.
From the technical aspect a VST plugin is just a dll file. Dynamic-link-libraries (.dll files) exist since Windows exists. It's common practice in software-development.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic-link_library
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_plugin

Yeah yeah, there was pro tools format, TDM and RTAS and Motu MAS too back then.
TDM iirc created in 1991 (or maybe two years later). RTAs since 1998.

DollyNipples · Post by **DollyNipples** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:41 pm

There's also loads of Buzz and Psycle plugins. I don't know if they were made before or after the first VST plugin, but I do remember that I at first didn't trust VST plugins. Now I love those things and have collected probably more than I will ever use. I have some opinions about the old Cubase but I AM open to possibly getting the Cubasis Android app because I would be able to use it on the go on my phone.

That said, I think it is pretty crappy that Steinberg waited forever to take this action, but maybe they do want to make sure their brand is safe. I just wish they had gone about it differently. The way they just forcefully took down VSTPlanet just comes off as them trying to screw with everyone by waiting until they had a false sense of security, then pouncing and catching everyone unawares. I mean, if I really wanted to hurt someone, that's what I would do. Maybe the Steinberg company had different intentions because honestly, people have weird reasons for doing weird, illogical stuff.

Markus Krause · Post by **Markus Krause** » Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:30 am

In 2003 Steinberg has been bought up by Pinnacle Systems. One year later they been bought up by Yamaha (Japanese companies are known for aggressively defending their trademarks). It seems after beeing bought up the company lost its soul and decisions are made by managers that maximize profits and have no clue how the audio industry works (e.g. no proper Midi support for VST3 plugins).

AlienXXX · Post by **AlienXXX** » Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:03 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:37 am What a bunch of ungrateful arseholes you lot are. Does it not occur to you that VST wouldn't exist without Steinberg? They invented the f**king thing, which has enabled us all to do stuff we couldn't have dreamed of 25 years ago, so how about you respect their right to control it however they please?

First of all: mind your language.
I do not mind you disagreeing with me, and you might even be right. However, that does not give you the right to be directly rude at people. - I certainly don't come here to be insulted or to insult others.

Secondly, Steinberg did not start this aggressive behaviour. - As others have pointed out, it seems to come from Yahama.

Also, for your info. I have been making computer music long before VSTs were around.
When I moved over to the PC, the program that really brought me back into music making was Reason. - And they were doing very well for many years before they started supporting VST format. Sure, it does make it more powerful and more interesting, but is by no means essential and I still make many music pieces in Reason without a VST in sight.

Yamaha's behaviour is deemed excessive because they are going after soft targets (i.e., small companies or individuals) that are not even developing software in the VST format but are helping to divulge the format. - lets not forget that the reason that the VST format was available for people to develop software, including free plugins and that these free plugins were easily available and accessible in the web is THE MAIN REASON why the format is so popular today.
A friendly (but firm) request to these websites to change name would have been much more appropriate before bringing in the lawyers and shutting them down.

I would also point out that as a consumer, I am absolutely entitled to boycott Yamaha's products for whatever reason. Or even for no reason at all. - It is called consumer choice.

pottering · Post by **pottering** » Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:04 pm

Either Steinberg is relatively independent (and hence they are responsible for those actions, not Yamaha), or Steinberg is a mere brand with no real independence and they and Yamaha are basically the same company (which would also be responsible for those actions).

It is 100% Steinberg's fault either way, as a Yamaha brand or independent company.

Yamaha owns Steinberg since 2004, so the argument that "since these sites existed for years before with no problem makes me thing that problem is indeed to do with the ownership by Yamaha" makes no sense.

gbarkovalev · Post by **gbarkovalev** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:28 pm

jacqueslacouth · Post by **jacqueslacouth** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:54 pm

VSTbuzz and VST deals are still happily up and running....a tad inconsistent one might think.

Held · Post by **Held** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:30 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:37 am What a bunch of ungrateful arseholes you lot are. Does it not occur to you that VST wouldn't exist without Steinberg? They invented the f**king thing, which has enabled us all to do stuff we couldn't have dreamed of 25 years ago, so how about you respect their right to control it however they please?

So they did a good thing once and earned the right to abuse their power forever? No thank you. If they hadn't come up with it, someone else would have.

What happened to VSTplanet?