Users of ARC or Sonarworks Reference, did it work?

[Erik_Lucas]

Have had IK's iLoud MTMs for about 6 months now. The built in ARC function is killer. The speakers are small though.

[fese]

Does anyone know whether the mic from sonarworks can be used with ARC3? I still got some slots free from the IK group buy and i might just give ARC a test ride.
But then reference works fine here in the DAW, so probably not needed. The systemwide tools is a bit wobbly and tends to forget its configuration if you switch your windows loudspeaker output, also it somehow blocks ASIO buffer size switching, if I change it while having cubase and reference open, sound output is dead and I have to restart everything.
Well, ARC doesn’t have a systemwide at all afaik…

[Mind Riot]

Does anyone know whether the mic from sonarworks can be used with ARC3? I still got some slots free from the IK group buy and i might just give ARC a test ride.

Pretty sure any mic specifically built for this kind of measurement will do the job, and Sonarworks' mic definitely falls into that category.

[Mind Riot]

So does anybody have any experience with IK's own mic they include with ARC if you pay a little more? I've got it coming and it seems pretty interesting, definitely not your typical omni, or your typical anything, really. I don't think it has any use outside of doing its intended room measurements, but who knows? Might sound good on an acoustic guitar if you like the sound of the room you're in.

The original mic that IK used could do double duty as a recording mic. The new mic that you’ll be getting isn’t good for recording anything, but the tolerances are very very tight, so there is no measurable difference from one unit to another for this type of mic. That’s very good for this application, because what matters is that your unit will match the mic profile in ARC exactly, giving you very good results.

And also, T-RackS Mic Room has a profile of the new mic (but unfortunately not the original, which is what I have), so you can replace the no good sound of the ARC mic with a U87 or an AKG C12, etc., and those tight tolerances will give you the most accurate mic replacement you can get in Mic Room.

So I highly recommend you select TR Mic Room as one of your Group Buy products, as it will add a lot of value to the mic outside of ARC.

Wait, I'm confused. You're telling me the mic is no good for recording anything, but then tell me I should use it for recording because its tolerances make it an ideal candidate for layering another mic's profile over it?

Or am I reading you wrong?

[v1o]

I don't think you can use an EQ profile to make a bad mic sound good. EQ cannot recreate details which were poorly captured by the mic's capsule.

[fese]

Does anyone know whether the mic from sonarworks can be used with ARC3? I still got some slots free from the IK group buy and i might just give ARC a test ride.

Pretty sure any mic specifically built for this kind of measurement will do the job, and Sonarworks' mic definitely falls into that category.

I checked the ARC manual, and they say that (while they of course recommend their own mic) use any other measurement mic, preferably with a mic calibration file. And lo and behold! Sonarworks offer them as a standard text file format on their website.

[jamcat]

So does anybody have any experience with IK's own mic they include with ARC if you pay a little more? I've got it coming and it seems pretty interesting, definitely not your typical omni, or your typical anything, really. I don't think it has any use outside of doing its intended room measurements, but who knows? Might sound good on an acoustic guitar if you like the sound of the room you're in.

The original mic that IK used could do double duty as a recording mic. The new mic that you’ll be getting isn’t good for recording anything, but the tolerances are very very tight, so there is no measurable difference from one unit to another for this type of mic. That’s very good for this application, because what matters is that your unit will match the mic profile in ARC exactly, giving you very good results.

And also, T-RackS Mic Room has a profile of the new mic (but unfortunately not the original, which is what I have), so you can replace the no good sound of the ARC mic with a U87 or an AKG C12, etc., and those tight tolerances will give you the most accurate mic replacement you can get in Mic Room.

So I highly recommend you select TR Mic Room as one of your Group Buy products, as it will add a lot of value to the mic outside of ARC.

Wait, I'm confused. You're telling me the mic is no good for recording anything, but then tell me I should use it for recording because its tolerances make it an ideal candidate for layering another mic's profile over it?

Or am I reading you wrong?

Sort of. I didn’t say you “should.” I said you “could.” You should try it out and decide for yourself. It may work well enough on some sources when you don’t have the real mic.

The MEMS mic is a full bandwidth mic that has effectively no variation from one to another. That’s why it is an ideal mic for room measurement. But it is unlikely to sound “good” on any source on its own. But, the same qualities that make it ideal for measurement also makes it ideal for mic replacement. Putting a U87 profile on the ARC MEMS mic will make audio recorded through it usable, perhaps even good. The results will be on par with Slate Digital VMS.

It’s kind of like how some mice aren’t great out of the box, but they take EQ really well. Think of it like that. The “EQ” you need for it is Mic Room.

Keep in mind that what Mic Room does is essentially the same thing that ARC does. In fact, ARC 3 has speaker replacement, so you can make it sound like you’re listening through NS-10s if you want. If digitally swapping out the natural profile for a convolved one isn’t for you, then ARC probably isn’t going to be for you either.

I’m just giving you information on how you can get more usability from the mic beyond measuring your room for ARC once. Use it or don’t.

[Mind Riot]

Sort of. I didn’t say you “should.” I said you “could.” You should try it out and decide for yourself. It may work well enough on some sources when you don’t have the real mic.

The MEMS mic is a full bandwidth mic that has effectively no variation from one to another. That’s why it is an ideal mic for room measurement. But it is unlikely to sound “good” on any source on its own. But, the same qualities that make it ideal for measurement also makes it ideal for mic replacement. Putting a U87 profile on the ARC MEMS mic will make audio recorded through it usable, perhaps even good. The results will be on par with Slate Digital VMS.

It’s kind of like how some mice aren’t great out of the box, but they take EQ really well. Think of it like that. The “EQ” you need for it is Mic Room.

Keep in mind that what Mic Room does is essentially the same thing that ARC does. In fact, ARC 3 has speaker replacement, so you can make it sound like you’re listening through NS-10s if you want. If digitally swapping out the natural profile for a convolved one isn’t for you, then ARC probably isn’t going to be for you either.

I’m just giving you information on how you can get more usability from the mic beyond measuring your room for ARC once. Use it or don’t.

Oh no, I don't have any issue with mic profile overlays or speaker profile overlays. Just trying to make sure I was understanding you clearly.

So ARC does speaker emulation too, huh? I thought it would just do a full range corrective EQ going for the flattest response. I hope that sort of basic functionality is in there somewhere, as that's pretty much what I'm after.

[jamcat]

Yes, ARC does full range room correction as its base function. Bear in mind that it corrects the room for a single listening position or two, so where you are in the room matters when you're using it.

Version 3 adds the ability to load various monitor profiles as well. You don't have to use them, but it may have some value to you for checking your mix with "different speakers."

[jamcat]

I don't think you can use an EQ profile to make a bad mic sound good. EQ cannot recreate details which were poorly captured by the mic's capsule.

In the case of Mic Room, it’s not an EQ profile anymore than a speaker cab or room impulse is merely an EQ profile. It uses deconvolution to remove the source mic impulse, followed by convolution to imprint the destination mic impulse.

The closer the source mic is to the impulse response in Mic Room, the more completely the sonic signature of the source mic will be removed by the deconvolution process, and thus the purer the results of the destination mic impulse imprint will be. Since the MEMS mics are full spectrum and are all sonically identical (that’s the one thing they’re good for), the mic will match the impulse exactly, and thus deconvolution will be very complete, which is sort of like having its personality completely wiped to a neutral state on which the replacement impulse will be imprinted.

[trmupstage]

I use Sonarworks. I got it a little over two years ago. Does it work? Absolutely. There are people who will tell you that all that EQ is messing with phase shifts etc. but I can say my mixes translated much better. I always send my mixes to a mastering engineer. I used to wrestle with the low end. Once I saw the plot of what my room was doing, it was obvious why my mixes had too much 80HZ. My room put an 8dB dip right there. Once I started using Sonarworks, the very next mix I sent out for mastering required no EQ changes. Usually, the mastering engineer would write to me and ask that I modify something. usually, pull 80HZ down on the bass and give a little more 50HZ to the kick. He rarely asks for any revisions now.
All that to say, I'm sold. It works for me. My mixer are better than ever. The only thing I don't like is their systemwide feature. Often it selects the wrong output pair (out of 24 I have available) which causes no sound. It's just annoying that it can't remember. Mostly, I use it as a plugin anyway. But when I'm doing video editing, I need the systemwide working.

[Mind Riot]

Yes, ARC does full range room correction as its base function. Bear in mind that it corrects the room for a single listening position or two, so where you are in the room matters when you're using it.

Version 3 adds the ability to load various monitor profiles as well. You don't have to use them, but it may have some value to you for checking your mix with "different speakers."

I'll definitely check that out. If it's a good mix there shouldn't be any glaring issues on other 'speakers' and if there is it's better I catch it then.

The room I'm working in is thoroughly acoustically treated, with a no reflection zone set up at the mix position and my head being one of the three points in an equilateral triangle with my monitors. Everything's carefully measured and placed, except the entire table is moved about ten inches or so off center to avoid the null you get if you put your head and monitors perfectly dead center in a room. I also use the K-System and have my interface's mixer software set up with presets to where I can work at 77, 80, or 83 db and all I have to do in the DAW is change a setting in the master's meters (these levels were all set up and tested using a sound meter and pink noise).

ARC is just about the last thing I can do to optimize the space I'm working in short of remodeling my house.

According to the tracking it should arrive tomorrow. I'm stoked.

[Mind Riot]

I use Sonarworks. I got it a little over two years ago. Does it work? Absolutely. There are people who will tell you that all that EQ is messing with phase shifts etc. but I can say my mixes translated much better. I always send my mixes to a mastering engineer. I used to wrestle with the low end. Once I saw the plot of what my room was doing, it was obvious why my mixes had too much 80HZ. My room put an 8dB dip right there. Once I started using Sonarworks, the very next mix I sent out for mastering required no EQ changes. Usually, the mastering engineer would write to me and ask that I modify something. usually, pull 80HZ down on the bass and give a little more 50HZ to the kick. He rarely asks for any revisions now.
All that to say, I'm sold. It works for me. My mixer are better than ever. The only thing I don't like is their systemwide feature. Often it selects the wrong output pair (out of 24 I have available) which causes no sound. It's just annoying that it can't remember. Mostly, I use it as a plugin anyway. But when I'm doing video editing, I need the systemwide working.

Frickin' awesome. That's all I got to say about this post. Better mix translation is really my main motivation in getting this.

[trmupstage]

Frickin' awesome. That's all I got to say about this post. Better mix translation is really my main motivation in getting this.

If you get Sonarworks, get the mic and follow the steps to calibrate your room at the mix position. My room has a lot of acoustic treatment. Lots of OC703 panels and a cloud. The room sounds good on it's own but after running the calibration, I see where it falls short. My studio a split 20'x20' and the mix area is roughly 10'x20' with an 8 foot ceiling. There are spreadsheets that can help with the math to figure out room nodes but Sonarworks did it for an exact position. The mix sounds off if I stand back a ways (boomy) but at the mix position it's pretty near flat. No room is going to be perfect unless it was designed correctly and is very large. IMO, something like Sonarworks is going to be needed in almost every single studio, especially a home studio. Of course, by using Sonarworks, I lose nearly 8dB of headroom because that's how much 80-90HZ is down at my mix position. So, my LYD48 monitors can't get as loud as with Sonarworks off. Not an issue for me as I mix generally at a very low volume. I always have. I crank it every once in a while to see how it feels but generally I'm mixing under 70dB.

Anyway, give it time. Listen to favorite songs after the room is calibrated. Get used to what it "should" sound like. Foe me, it was completely game changing. Funny thing is, I was getting super depressed about my mixes because they were not translating very well at all. The low end was always off. I spoke to multiple mastering guys and had them give feedback on the mixes. Once I got Sonarworks going, my confidence jumped greatly when all I heard was "great mix" from the masting guys. For me, this was the single most important purchase I've made in my studio in at least a decade. Seriously, I'm not a fan-boy. I just know how it helped me.

[Hanallred]

Reading through this thread has convinced me to give Arc3 a try. Just bought it for $70 (with cross grade and 30 jam points). I already have the iLoud MTMs, so I have the mic. Gonna install and try out later today.