An Invitation to Soundpaint

[BenfordLaw]

He got a point. Im also wondering why you should get a sample pack instead of a full vat which costs less and where you can make all sounds? Tweak patches etc?

Again, wrong thread...

This is the "Instruments" thread. Not the VA synth VST thread.

Yes, how dare you point out that most synth VSTs on the market are going to give you much more control over the sounds you make, than Soundpaint...

[zzz00m]

still - having a 44GB sound library just to add a layer feels excessive

It seems you have found your way into the wrong thread. This topic in not about VA synths...

Huge sample libraries and their sample players are completely different, and have a very established place for orchestral and film/TV composers.

are you saying this should be in the samples forum?
get a mod to move it.

LOL, I'm not the OP. This SoundPaint topic was posted in the "Instruments" forum. I wasn't aware that this forum was exclusively for VST synths...

SoundPaint is an "instrument" but clearly not a pure VST synth either. However, its sample content seems to have riled up the KVR synth crowd a bit!

[Robmobius]

It depends how many presets it has. What if it only has ten presets - bear in mind that it isn't a SYNTH so you can't edit those samples very much.

Ah... I didn't know that. I assumed it was like Omnisphere. In the way you can manipulate the raw waveforms and create lots of sounds. By the sound of it, this is a bit of a rompler, is that the case, then?

[zzz00m]

It depends how many presets it has. What if it only has ten presets - bear in mind that it isn't a SYNTH so you can't edit those samples very much.

By the sound of it, this is a bit of a rompler, is that the case, then?

Yes, in a sense it is a ROMpler, in that you start with the SoundPaint samples available to you, and arrange up to 4 of them as parts (layers) in a patch, that you can then manipulate each part with the racks, effects, and arpeggiator. See the video tuts on those items for more info on what can be done.

The dev stated that he hoped to have user sample import available next year. That would make it an awesome sound design tool!

[CinningBao]

I've put up a scant review of the product and my opinion of the plugin here
https://www.matthewlarge.com/blog/i-was ... eta-tester

[Ploki]

it's funny that it morphs "intelligently" but sample data is f**king huge. What's the point?

[CinningBao]

You can get an idea of how the data is distributed by looking at the sample/data folder and the filenames.

In the Staccato folder:
- files called: Staccato_<note|octave>_M1_Vx(Velocity)_Rx(round-robin allocation I suspect)_X1.8dio
- ignoring M1 and X1 since they don't change within one sample collection
- Notes are sampled in a whole-tone scale (C, D, E, F#, G#, A#) across 6 octaves (7 for C)
- 5 or 6 velocities are used for each note in each octave (this changes per octave, not sure why)
- 5 round-robins have been sampled for each velocity

So, 6 * 6 * 6 * 5 = 1080 + a few more with "_1oct" extensions
I've got around 1,300 in that folder, so the numbers are in the right ballpark.

The files in this folder range from 500kB to just under 1MB. At 44.1kHz, 1 second of audio occupies ~180kB. When I load one of these samples in to Soundpaint and play it back, none of the samples are longer than about half a second.

These files do not contain _only_ audio data (if any; it could just be spectral deconstructions of the sound), they also contain much more 'per second' information, much of which is used to (I suspect) interpolate between velocities, stretch/compress when going up or down in pitch... the developers could be using the analysis data in a number of ways to 'smooth' out the inconsistencies between velocity layers or pitches.

I'm only extrapolating this from using the product and looking at the structure of the data it installed, so I could be wrong on many levels. I don't think I'm too far from the truth though.

[autodafe]

I wrote a small "unpack" workaround to fix the probem that many people (me included) are having when downloading/unpacking libraries

https://www.autodafe.net/blog/230-how-t ... paint.html

[BJ]

Did anyone get the Juniper UDS soundset? How many presets does it have?

[Caine123]

i dont find any full patchlist or something. they just released a commodore 64 soundset but it does sound more altered/cinematic so i dunno what it includes at all i just see people so EMOTIONALLY playing these sets but well any product can sound well if played well but without more infos about the sets it looks more like marketing.

[jancivil]

The Rhodes demo sounds fantastic until he starts bringing in a lot of supposed 'tremolo', where it's revealed that's just LFO and sounds fake af with that much. And he even fugs around with it as an effect. I hate fake vibrato, it's done well in very few things IME. This was not pretty. At the extreme it sounds like doing it with pitch bend wheel.
But, for a Rhodes with a lot of bark for funk this was something to behold. 20 bucks!

[hebex]

Sorry, I´m not impressed by the Jupiter at all, the so called "ultra deep" UDS version.

There are only presets in this VST that you mangle with the Soundpaint sample engine. So this is not really a Jupiter emulation, like Softubes Juno emulation, for example -- just to be clear, as the hype is not too clear about this, IMO. To me this does not matter, as long as the sound and feel of the presets are what to be expected.

Well, playing it I expected the Soundpaint Jupiter preset to feel alive, in the same way that for example my Sequential P10 (2020 version) reacts under my fingers. The P10 feels like an instrument. It does not feel flat.

Disclaimer: I have not played a real Jupiter 8, so I don´t really know if it feels flat IRL. But, according to the Troels infomercial, it certainly does not, so that´s why I expected it to feel alive, about the same as a real P10 feels alive when playing the real synth.

I was living with hopes that, for example, the said multiple/infinite velocity layers in Soundpaint reacting to my playing, would make the Jupiter preset feel about the same as playing a multiple velocity sampled paino almost feel the same as a real piano.

I had watched the Jupiter infomercial in which that Troels guy said just that and I was thinking that this may be what I´ve been looking for.

But I didn´t experience anything like it, having bought and (at last) got it downloaded and trying it out. I didn´t feel too much "built in analog behaviour" at all. It felt flat.

YMMV and all, but it was not for me.

Anyone aware of an actual deep sample synth, with multiple velocity layers etc that gives the illusion of a real, living synth? Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Soundpaint at this stage, at least, IMO, does not deliver.

Note: SP may be on to something and maybe it will deliver a better product in the future, I don´t know. But I feel I´m entitled to say my honest, rather critical, view, for other customers to know, since I actually bought and played it and the hype did not live up to my expectations.

[noiseboyuk]

So this is not really a Jupiter emulation

Actually I think they are clear on this, indeed they proudly boast "this is no emulation". But it's (as often with 8dio I find) a smoke-and-mirrors boast. By saying "this is no emulation" they imply that theirs is somehow the real thing. Er, no. They have instead sampled the real thing. Tens of thousands of dead samples.

Not that you can't get good sounds in that way, I'm sure you can. But to imply somehow that it is superior to an emulation which models behaviour is disingenuous at best.

It makes zero sense to me as a methodology. Unless there's more voodoo I don't know about beyond this morphing of velocity layers, they would have to sample every combination of every parameter.

[BenfordLaw]

it's funny that it morphs "intelligently" but sample data is f**king huge. What's the point?

I was thinking the same thing after downloading the free piano. Yes, it loads really quickly, but why is it 8GB in size if it's somehow doing something special and 'rendering' the sample data from (presumably) smaller amounts of data than you would normally use to play back a sample?

[BenfordLaw]

Sorry, I´m not impressed by the Jupiter at all, the so called "ultra deep" UDS version.

There are only presets in this VST that you mangle with the Soundpaint sample engine. So this is not really a Jupiter emulation, like Softubes Juno emulation, for example -- just to be clear, as the hype is not too clear about this, IMO. To me this does not matter, as long as the sound and feel of the presets are what to be expected.

Well, playing it I expected the Soundpaint Jupiter preset to feel alive, in the same way that for example my Sequential P10 (2020 version) reacts under my fingers. The P10 feels like an instrument. It does not feel flat.

...

Note: SP may be on to something and maybe it will deliver a better product in the future, I don´t know. But I feel I´m entitled to say my honest, rather critical, view, for other customers to know, since I actually bought and played it and the hype did not live up to my expectations.

I'm sorry that you actually bought the Juniper 8, can you tell us how many presets it has? Can you tell us how much disc space each preset takes up?

I really don't see any point in producing sample libraries of synths. It is never going to be as good as an actual synth. Sample libraries are for real instruments that a synth just can't emulate - violins, etc.