Digital Performer 11

[Trancer]

I just changed machines.

i7 11700k and 32 gigabytes of ram.

For the moment, I have Studio One Artist, I wanted to switch to the pro version, but in view of the takeover by Fender, no longer too much confidence in the future of Studio One and not want to invest for a daw whose evolution we do not know so much about and which knows to obsolescence in the short, medium term.

If it's like Gibson, the programmed death of Studio One, that would be a real shame, because an excellent daw.

Cubase remains an alternative.

But, according to some reading, Steinberg is removing features and users have to revert to an earlier version of Cubase, a shame, because normally an upgrade is better, more, and not downgraded.

Bugs also on Cubase, displays and others.

Can you confirm that for me?

Hence the subject of my post, how do you find Digital Performer 11?

He's worth the pain ?

Because it is still expensive.

It has a clip launcher system like ableton which is an integration that I really like.

Better to invest in Digital Performer 11 or Cubase 11?

My use is at 90% vst and plug ins, I plan to buy hardware, therefore, Digital Performer 11 must be as good at managing the virtual as the hardware.

Thank you in advance for your answers.

[antic604]

Hence the subject of my post, how do you find Digital Performer 11?

Tried it 2 times. Both were utter failure. Seemed to me like a frankenstein child of FL and Reaper somehow - confusing, convoluted and with clunky, antiquated GUI of Acid Pro or Mixcraft

But lots of people swear by it, e.g. @machinesworking. Apparently it's awesome for orchestral stuff, for working with hardware synths and advanced MIDI.

BTW, I don't get your concerns with Fender acquisition of Presonus. If anythin, it can make S1 stronger. It's too early to tell. And besides, you can always move to other DAW when things start to go wrong, but there's nothing suggesting that just yet.

[jonljacobi]

I can never get past DP's slow interface redraws. Perhaps if I weren't married to Live, or needed something more, I might give it a real shot.

As for your dilemma... I don't think S1 is going anywhere. The devs are in Germany, all the hardware infrastructure is in Louisiana, and Fender isn't a stupid company. I've seen companies buy other companies that compete with them then kill them. But Presonus doesn't compete with Fender on any level, they just bring a lot stuff to the table that Fender doesn't have.

I think you "might" see some logo changes but not much else. At any rate, it's certainly too early to throw in the towel. If you like Studio One, stick with it.

[machinesworking]

I’m a bad person to ask I suppose because I’ve used it in and off since DP2 and even used Performer 1 a midi only sequencer in the 80’s as a kid.

That said I own 5 DAWs and DP11 is the constant. The big thing for me is that a DP project is capable of holding every song you write if you wanted, the way DPs Chunks work is that the entire Sequence including VSTs can be saved in a “sequence chunk” so for instance when you’re at the point where you’re done with the arrangement you can copy the sequence into the project and print the tracks to audio to master it etc. with each step saved within the same project taking up almost no resources.

In terms of learning it coming from another DAW I can see how it would be hard like antic pointed out, but the bones are pretty straightforward, more so than Bitwig or Logic IMO, more like how the bussing is in Live. IMO it’s a worth the initial discomfort.

They’ve shored up a lot of loose ends with dp11, there are still a few like most daws have, it differentiates between looped midi and audio and non looped, which means doing a dance of packing and unpacking Clips to edit them in the more advanced edit environments etc. but in general I’m a fan.

[fmr]

Better to invest in Digital Performer 11 or Cubase 11?

My use is at 90% vst and plug ins, I plan to buy hardware, therefore, Digital Performer 11 must be as good at managing the virtual as the hardware.

Thank you in advance for your answers.

I am a very old user of Performer (since version 3.5 on macOS 6) and Digital Performer (since version 1). Have Digital Performer in Windows since it came out for this platform. I still didn't upgrade to version 11, because there was a problem with it and Kontakt (Kontakt GUI freezes inside DP).

I reported it, and they told me they were working with NI to solve the problem. A new update was launched after several months, and the problem remains. Besides, it is very intolerant with VSTs, and not so integrated in Windows (CPU taxation is high comparatively to others)..

Cubase, OTOH, is very good in Windows, and nowadays my main platform. So, I would say: Cubase Pro, anytime.

[Resonant- Serpent]

Digital Performer is still buggy on Windows. Cubase is a much better option if you want to ditch S1. I know some features were taken out, but still miles ahead of S1.

[Trancer]

Thank you very much for your feedback.

After reading your answers and leaving the emotional side out, you are right, I really like Studio One, really a great daw.

I reacted with emotion when I read the news of the merger.

But we'll see the rest and maybe a little stupid to switch to another daw on impulsiveness

I will patiently wait for an offer from Presonus to upgrade to the Pro version.

We'll see more ...

[EnGee]

I personally don't care about the result of Fender/Presonus and went and bought the Pro version of S1 2nd hand! Although, my main is Cubase but Studio One is more easy going. I also still have ATOM and it is a nice small tool for controlling part of S1 and to be used as drumming pads (better than the pads on my keylab mkii but less than Maschine). I'm currently using S1 more than Cubase as it starts faster and it closes faster! Most of my workflow is the same! Even the shortcuts I use are the same 99%.

Even if things begin to head wrong direction with Presonus under Fender, there is still a long time to think and react! Anyway, I have two similar DAWs now, so I won't be bothered with other DAWs. DP looks fantastic, but might consider it if on Mac, although I still have a license of Logic Pro might use that instead if I buy M1 Mac.

For now, I think S1 is a great choice both the Artist and Pro versions So, I would use Artist or buy 2nd hand Pro (or wait for a discount for cross/upgrade to Pro) if I were you Trancer

[Trancer]

Thank you for your reply.

After reflection and following your messages, in fact, I will wait for a promotion at Presonus, normally one this month and I will switch to the Pro version

[Gadget Fiend]

I currently use Cubase 11 on a late 2015 MacBook Pro (2.9 GHz quad cord i7). I also own Studio One Pro v4. I have thought many times about switching to Studio One because I think there is less legacy bloat in Studio One and the workflows tend to be better.

Unfortunately, I have about 75 "rough mix" songs in Cubase. Trying to convert all these songs to Studio One would be an insane amount of work.

But the biggest reason I don't switch to Studio One is that Studio One doesn't record sys-ex messages. So I can't dump the patches from all of my hardware synths as sys-ex files into the start of Studio One tracks. I just don't know why Studio One doesn't support sys-ex. Nearly every other DAW does.

[machinesworking]

But the biggest reason I don't switch to Studio One is that Studio One doesn't record sys-ex messages. So I can't dump the patches from all of my hardware synths as sys-ex files into the start of Studio One tracks. I just don't know why Studio One doesn't support sys-ex. Nearly every other DAW does.

Good thing to know, Studio One has a lot of hype so I've thought about looking into it in case I'm missing anything, the other newer DAWs Bitwig and Live both don't natively support SysEx dumps, for some reason that small window where there weren't many hardware synths out that could dump their patches in a song seems to have had them thinking it's unimportant.

For what it's worth there's a Max 4 Live SysEx dump patch for Ableton Suite etc. So Bitwig and Studio One the newest two DAWs are the ones who don't play well with SysEx.

[jonljacobi]

Addendum to my previous comment, having spent more time with it recently. It's extremely powerful, especially for arranging and interfacing with anything SMPTE. But there is a very steep learning curve. Also, while previous versions redrew slowly, my most recent experience (same i7-6770) was very snappy. No longer any issues there.

[machinesworking]

Addendum to my previous comment, having spent more time with it recently. It's extremely powerful, especially for arranging and interfacing with anything SMPTE. But there is a very steep learning curve. Also, while previous versions redrew slowly, my most recent experience (same i7-6770) was very snappy. No longer any issues there.

From everything I've seen on the Windows version, it's great unless it has some issue with your particular machine. Nobody using the Windows version I'm in contact with has any complaints, but there does seem to be a few configurations out there that can mess it up.

In terms of DP, yes it's complex and has to (IMO if you're really to get the most out of it), be set up a bit to your liking. You can dive in and record audio and midi etc. but to really get full potential out of it, it's best to spend some time setting it up how you want to use it.

Personally I've used it for years without templates, pre arranged configurations etc. but I'm starting to use it with VEP and large orchestral libraries, using Clippings to have large chunks of data like 25+ track names for parts in Kontakt, VEP etc. I think this comes back to something that's a personal choice and maybe a matter of aesthetics and use case, if the DAW is easy to use from day one, it's IMO less likely to have massive time saving features when you go deep into it, and visa versa. For instance in Ableton Live I don't know of any way to automatically assign 16 MIDI tracks to a Kontakt instrument housing 16 instruments, that's dead easy in DP. In fact in DP there's a way to create all 16 channels when you instantiate the Kontakt instance, and there's a way to create an additional 15 etc. and assign them to a single instantiated instance that already exists. Same with most things and to a degree in reverse using Live to write and create a low track count experimental electronic piece can be a more pleasant experience simply because there's little menu diving to warp a sample, mess with the pitch etc.

[Trensharo]

I tried DP11 (Crossgrade) and had to get it refunded. It's just too buggy on Windows.

I had issues with an Audio Interface, so I bought a new one to fix that (I have no faith in that getting fixed by either DP or M-Audio).

Then, I had tons of issues with VST Plug-ins.

DP uses a native MAS system for plug-ins, the way Pro Tools uses AAX. They basically pipe everything through the MOTU Audio System, so it basically wraps everything. They have a Plug-in Validator, but it fails tons of plug-ins. This is generally not an issue since you can use VST2 when VST3 fails, and vice versa. The issue is that even when a plug-in passes the validator, the DAW wasn't making them available for use. This happened with a lot of Native Instruments and iZotope Plug-ins - notably Komplete Kontrol - kind of an issue if your workflow involves the use of that hardware.

Through trial and error (in the most literal sense possible) I could finally get most of them to show up. Komplete Kontrol I basically had to do a re-install multiple times any time either DP or Komplete Kontrol had an update. It would always break things. Same with other NI Plug-ins/Virtual Instruments and iZotope plug-ins (Neutron 3 Advanced plug-ins were particularly bad), in addition to some IK Multimedia, Output and others.

After a whilel, the issue was just not worth dealing with. MOTU Tech Support did say they got reports of this from other users, and the community there is generally full of old heads who are still stuck in the 90s where "Your PC is the problem." Most are macOS users, anyways, so they'd respond with "suggestions" that were macOS specific, despite the indication being clear that this was a Windows issue.

I ended up asking for/receiving a refund.

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As for the DAW itself. I think the GUI was fine enough. It reminded me of Pro Tools or Samplitude Pro X... or some weird amalgamation of the two. Performance was generally fine, but some of the plug-in (and definitely the virtual instruments) were so badly scaled even on a 1080p display that the text was borderline unreadable.

It has a relatively unorthodox workflow and track methodology, but I actually quite liked it, which is why I actually spent money to fix some of its issues (reproduceable across 2 separate machines, so it was never really something that was "because of my PC").

In use, it felt a bit like Samplitude Pro X. VERY Keyboard Driven (don't bother if you want drag-and-drop convenience) with a lot of docking flexibility. Can probably get a bit messy, easily. The feature set was very deep. It felt like a true generalist DAW (Cubase Pro, Samplitude Pro X Suite, etc.) - good for both Audio and MIDI.

It did default to track-based MIDI editing, which threw me for a loop, but there is an option to default to clips.

MIDI and Audio Editing were both strong. Good MIDI Composition features. Chunks and V-Racks are very nice features. The NanoSampler 2 is really good, as well, and has ZTX Algorithms.

The Stock Plug-ins were decent, but I didn't really like the plug-in Browser. The content browser was nice, but nothing compared to e.g. Cubase's MediaBay. I still think the stock Virtual Instruments are better than Studio One's. Shame about the UI (both design and scaling). The Clip Launcher was just... okay.

The Audio System works similar to the Samplitude Pro X Hybrid System, where it buffers things ahead, so playback performance was really good even under decent to high load.

Track counts balloon quickly due to it not having "Instrument Tracks" in the general sense (Tracks that combine the MIDI Input and Audio Output for a virtual instrument). For example, if you have 10 instances of Serum in your project in Studio One, that is 10 Instrument Tracks. In Digital Performer, that is 10 Instrument Tracks + 10 MIDI Tracks, at least.

It has pitch editing and Spectral View, but not Spectral Editing like Samplitude Pro X. Samplitude is stronger with Audio but DP is stronger with MIDI. It has very extensive Surround Sound Support, without having to upgrade to a "Broadcast SKU" that costs $1-4,000 - i.e. Avid Pro Tools | Ultimate, Steinberg Nuendo or MAGIX Sequoia.

But it's really a bit of a train wreck on Windows, as far as bugginess goes. On macOS, I think it can be recommended. I wouldn't recommend on Windows. The risk is too high, and the cost is not cheap unless you're cross grading during a half-off promotion or something. For about the same price, you can get innumerable "high end" DAWs that will "just work" on this platform.

Support was prompt, though, and they did try their hardest to help. But these weren't really issues they could fix, and I wasn't willing to waste the money waiting - only to be asked to pay for an upgrade in a year or so ($195 upgrades...) to fix the issues.

It is missing some of the convenience features that other DAWs have. Chord Track, Chord Pads, Scale Assistant, Control Room, MusicXML Import (can Export, though), Arranger Track, Multiple Marker Tracks, Pattern Editor/Sequencer (think Studio One, Logic Pro), etc.

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I mention Samplitude, because that's the DAW DP most felt like to use, to me. It seemed infinitely powerful, but rough around the edges, and it was missing some of the convenience features - but I actually sort of enjoyed that, as it created less distractions.

Pretty decent Control Surface Support, and setting things up were easy. I set my Oxygen Pro up in like 3 minutes by simply duplicating the Pro Tools Preset and editing some key comments for things like Quantize/Metronome/View Mixer/etc.

[nix808]

MX4 synthesizer is lush,
but it displays badly on Windows