Cubase 12 leaked on Steinberg's site

[pixel85]

It's funny how people are complaining now that the new system is also bad because now it will require the internet to check out a license. Like... what did they expect to get? To put CD-ROM to the drive to check legitimacy?
I have a feeling that those are the same people who were complaining that eLicenser is taking 1 USB port and they can't live with such an unbearable burden.

First world problems this week are sponsored by Steinberg

[ShawnG]

You forgot to say that you have to check in when you activated the license. You also forgot to say that this piece of dongle permanently blocks one of your USB ports, just for the vendor to make sure that "your" software isn't use in disregard of the licensing/usage terms.

Anyway, not here to defend, or attack anything. It's totally up to you what make out of Steinberg's new licensing system. I'm all for voting with your wallet. Anything else is just blah which fills web space.

Well, forums ARE for filling webspace aren't they? It's just discussion. Can't say I "forgot" to say anything I didn't mean to say in the first place but that's fine.
You consider activating a license a "check in". If that's how you see it that's ok. I call activating a license a one time "setup." That's not ongoing. NOW it will be ongoing. That is my point. I'm not against the company doing what's in their best interest. If I decide it's less of a pia than I thought, I'll roll with it. As far as blocking a USB port well, c'mon. That's kind of reaching don't you think? I mean,who would count that?

Well, not me, as I’m on a desktop, but a laptop user wouldn’t consider it a reach…. That’s not a small amount of people, and that same group is also most likely to break the thing b/c of how their platform gets used.

[jonalyn]

the thing i worry about is it could be 10.15 and M1 only...

[jancivil]

It's funny how people are complaining now that the new system is also bad because now it will require the internet to check out a license. Like... what did they expect to get? To put CD-ROM to the drive to check legitimacy?
I have a feeling that those are the same people who were complaining that eLicenser is taking 1 USB port and they can't live with such an unbearable burden.

First world problems this week are sponsored by Steinberg

Ha. Harsh but not terribly unfair.

after my experience Sunday with BFD3 losing all my auths due to that necessity to connect to a website, I REALLY prefer the unobtrusive physical key.

[noiseboyuk]

Ah yes, classic good ol'KVR selective quoting to rabble rouse the masses.

Ahh, and the good old selective and overly assumptive reply. I pointed out it appears they're planning to introduce a subscription model. They are. I did not state they're removing the perpetual option. Though I concede, on reflection, I should've added the "no plans for change now" part about perpetual licenses. That's because I think anybody (who follows this stuff) would automatically assume they'll offer both - at least initially.

I like what you concede

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I have zero issues with any company offering subs. I just don't want to use them, I want permanent licenses and as long as they carry on doing that, all good. Essentially all the grumbling comes down to "ah it's a slippery slope", which has no real basis in fact. I often ask for people to list the companies that offered both models and then eventually withdraw the permanent license, but then everything goes quiet. I mean even I think there has to be one or two, but no-one has ever named one.

[jancivil]

well as much "I gotta stick with Cubase workflow" as I am, a subscription I just ain't goin' for, I would try Studio One I suppose, maybe Logic.

They've in every case been unequivocal this isn't happening, someone drawing that inference from that one fact is of no actual concern to me (I am sick of how 11 behaves so what else is there, yo). A bit rabble-rousing conspiratorial bs to me as well, nothing personal. And yeah, slippery slope fallacy too.

At this point I have no plans at all to continue updating past Cubase 11.0.0 so I can totally just ignore the whole issue unless they've lied about keeping perpetual licenses, but I need this new key to outlive me (which it well may).
(I've used SX1, SX2, 5 and 5.5, 8.5, 9 through 11.0.) And I doubt the single thing that would move me to do 11.5 is going to happen, cross that bridge as it comes.

[pixel85]

It's funny how people are complaining now that the new system is also bad because now it will require the internet to check out a license. Like... what did they expect to get? To put CD-ROM to the drive to check legitimacy?
I have a feeling that those are the same people who were complaining that eLicenser is taking 1 USB port and they can't live with such an unbearable burden.

First world problems this week are sponsored by Steinberg

Ha. Harsh but not terribly unfair.

after my experience Sunday with BFD3 losing all my auths due to that necessity to connect to a website, I REALLY prefer the unobtrusive physical key.

I'm totally fine with a dongle but I'm not working on a laptop so 1 USB port used for the dongle is not a problem.
I just hope that it will not be like with eg. NI Native Access. It took them a bit of time before using it / registering etc. became actually possible without bugs and issues. They're giving themselves 2 years. I hope it doesn't mean that we will have a public beta of their new system for 2 years

[dblock]

You forgot to say that you have to check in when you activated the license. You also forgot to say that this piece of dongle permanently blocks one of your USB ports, just for the vendor to make sure that "your" software isn't use in disregard of the licensing/usage terms.

Anyway, not here to defend, or attack anything. It's totally up to you what make out of Steinberg's new licensing system. I'm all for voting with your wallet. Anything else is just blah which fills web space.

Well, forums ARE for filling webspace aren't they? It's just discussion. Can't say I "forgot" to say anything I didn't mean to say in the first place but that's fine.
You consider activating a license a "check in". If that's how you see it that's ok. I call activating a license a one time "setup." That's not ongoing. NOW it will be ongoing. That is my point. I'm not against the company doing what's in their best interest. If I decide it's less of a pia than I thought, I'll roll with it. As far as blocking a USB port well, c'mon. That's kind of reaching don't you think? I mean,who would count that?

Well, not me, as I’m on a desktop, but a laptop user wouldn’t consider it a reach…. That’s not a small amount of people, and that same group is also most likely to break the thing b/c of how their platform gets used.

Good point. Hadn't thought of that for laptop users but you can plug in hubs for days of usb ports.

[jancivil]

I'm working on a laptop but it has 3 USB ports besides the one used for the power cable, and a USB-A key does not use much energy, is fine in a hub.
There's a definite whole malcontent vibe here for me.

[jancivil]

The BFD3 thing, now the workers have got massa to knock the check-in back to every 90 days, but what happened to me on Sunday doesn't happen except for that dependency. SB has said there will be occasional check-in but the desire is to make it fairly infrequent. How impactful that will be no one can know before experiencing it. There is a single crucial authorization I care about (I could delete HALion SE 3), with BFD3 it's umpteen licenses and a stopped show because it won't open at all without all ducks in a row.

[jancivil]

I hope it IS like Native Access, I've not had any show-stopping problem in my experience with it. Not in love with waiting for it to self-update every single time, but I'm not quite as impatient as all that in my dotage. Been a long time since that was a problem.
Other than when it forced us to install all or nothing of the Kontakt Factory Library on the system drive, that wasn't good (esp since I use only one folder from it, ever, but I like that one).

[LoveEnigma18]

Can I sell licenses? If so, how?

Yes, you will still be able to sell your retail licenses using the Steinberg Licensing system. We will provide details of this process in the future.

Note, however, after you have updated an existing license for a Steinberg product to a version that uses the new Steinberg Licensing system, although the license for the previous version will remain in your eLicenser, you cannot resell, transfer or update/upgrade that license.

Not sure I understood the second para well here.

When you update to the new system any previous licenses that were eLicenser based become NFR. But you can sell the current license thats based on the Steinberg Licensing system.

If I buy Groove Agent 5 and activate it right now and let's say in future, after the new licensing is introduced and I have to obviously move to it, they release Groove Agent 6.

Can I update from GA5 to GA6? Can GA6 be resold then?

Of course it may be too early to ask this, but since I am planning to buy GA5 soon, I don't want to end up in a situation where I can't update to GA6. Reselling point is not a big deal right now.

Good point!

I think it depends if we can register (say) GA5 with the new system or not. If we can't update or upgrade our licenses then what? The new system only applied on buying new software?! It doesn't make sense!

But if they are sane people, then what they mean is "once you update/upgrade GA5 license to GA6 license in the new system, then you can only sell or update GA6 license and your GA5 license is worthless as you can't separate it from the updated/upgraded version.

Anyway, as companies seem lost the logic in thinking! I suggest you wait and don't buy anything till you see the things are settled and things seem logical!

Yes, I am hoping what you said is true and it indeed logical. But as fmr said it is a bit tricky for USB dongle cases. I believe migrating from soft e-licenser to new system is effectively the same thing (there is no hardware involved), so we should be able to update and resell (the latest version, not previous).

That's a good suggestion and I am indeed not buying it right away. I will only buy it if it goes on 50% discount.

In the meantime, I have dropped an email to support. Got a response already, but trying to reconfirm my understanding. Will post here once done.

Got the confirmation from Steinberg that updates/upgrades will be possible after migrating an existing license from existing licenser to new licensing system. Kinda no-brainer, but wanted to clarify it for myself.

Reselling might be a bit tricky, especially with USB e-licenser. It should be clearer once we get more information on this in future.

[elxsound]

The good thing is that they'll be beta testing the licensing system for some time, and Dorico 4 will be a beta of sorts too.

Thankfully they're aware of Adobe's early missteps with their subscription model. I was likely not the only one that intermittently lost internet and then couldn't open my apps. I had a deadline when that happened long ago (not fun), but Adobe fixed that (even though I don't have a sub anymore) and it seems Steinberg has a decent system in place not to allow that to happen.

I'm confused though... Weren't they going to allow people to continue to use their elicenser (as part of the new system)? I see the vague FAQ and it never sounds promising using a system that will be deprecated eventually.

There are quite a bit of vocal users that like their elicenser so don't knock them for complaining. I would be complaining if I were them because this doesn't align with the original new licensing announcement.

[chk071]

I'm confused though... Weren't they going to allow people to continue to use their elicenser (as part of the new system)?

Only for products which used the eLicenser system, the way I understood it.

[PAK]

It's funny how people are complaining now that the new system is also bad because now it will require the internet to check out a license. Like... what did they expect to get? To put CD-ROM to the drive to check legitimacy?

It's also funny how some people fail to understand there's more consequences from such a move. It's about whether (once you've purchased a license) you are able to simply use it, or whether it mandates continued intervention from a company to allow its use.

That goes far beyond whether or not you want your DAW connected to the internet. You are now reliant on that company in ways in which you would otherwise not be, and all in the name of "copy protection" which will be cracked anyway?

That IS a change from Steinberg's previous practices. What they are proposing is not perpetual licensing, which could (arguably) include one-off online activation btw. Instead, Yamaha are now saying that they will be the permanent middle man between you and your usage of their software. Why even demand you come back after a year?! WTF?!

On the (hopefully) distant day Yamaha's servers go offline, the difference with eLicenser is you are left with your licenses for as long as the dongle survives. With Yamaha's new methods you will be left with.. nothing.

Oh, and for those dismissive of such scenarios, perhaps they might consider that, yes, "going back to old projects" is actually a common thing for musicians to do! So it's kinda nice to think, 20 years from now, that someone can actually open their old music project! Thanks to emulation, historic precedence has shown that this is entirely possible, and the main barrier, to prevent this, tends to be copy protection.