Cubase 12 leaked on Steinberg's site

[noiseboyuk]

I'm confused though... Weren't they going to allow people to continue to use their elicenser (as part of the new system)? I see the vague FAQ and it never sounds promising using a system that will be deprecated eventually.

If I understand correctly, all that means is you can continue to use the elicenser on older versions in perpetuity. Until something breaks.

[elxsound]

I'm confused though... Weren't they going to allow people to continue to use their elicenser (as part of the new system)? I see the vague FAQ and it never sounds promising using a system that will be deprecated eventually.

If I understand correctly, all that means is you can continue to use the elicenser on older versions in perpetuity. Until something breaks.

That's what I understood too. It's still a departure from their earlier announcement and assurances to users who prefer that system.

[noiseboyuk]

It's also funny how some people fail to understand there's more consequences from such a move. It's about whether (once you've purchased a license) you are able to simply use it, or whether it mandates continued intervention from a company to allow its use.

That goes far beyond whether or not you want your DAW connected to the internet. You are now reliant on that company in ways in which you would otherwise not be, and all in the name of "copy protection" which will be cracked anyway?

That IS a change from Steinberg's previous practices. What they are proposing is not "true" perpetual licensing, which could include one-off online activation btw. Instead, Yamaha are now saying that they will be the permanent middle man between you and your usage of their software. Why even demand you come back after a year?! WTF?!

On the (hopefully) distant day Yamaha's servers go offline, the difference with eLicenser is you are left with your licenses for as long as the dongle survives. With Yamaha's new methods you will be left with.. nothing.

Oh, and for those dismissive of such scenarios, perhaps they might consider that, yes, "going back to old projects" is actually a common thing for musicians to do! So it's kinda nice to think, 20 years from now, that someone can actually open their old music project! Thanks to emulation, historic precedence has shown that this is entirely possible, and the main barrier, to prevent this, tends to be copy protection.

I do get this argument and I have some sympathy with it, but it's largely theoretical. Again, this hasn't been a real world problem from any major company. Companies' products tend to get sold / taken over. I have a ton of stuff that falls into this category of needing some sort of software authorisation, the majority actually.

I agree it's not impossible though that one day we could get stuffed. Come the apocalypse, who knows what will happen. I may have other things to worry about then of course, should I be unlucky enough to survive.

Happy COP26!

[Blaster]

well as much "I gotta stick with Cubase workflow" as I am, a subscription I just ain't goin' for, I would try Studio One I suppose, maybe Logic.

Ah, but you can't use Studio One. It also has a subscription option and Fender acquired it. According to some people here that means either it will be killed off like Gibson did with Cakewalk, or it will move to subscription only soon.

You need to read between the lines you know.

Have you tried Reaper?

[pixel85]

It's funny how people are complaining now that the new system is also bad because now it will require the internet to check out a license. Like... what did they expect to get? To put CD-ROM to the drive to check legitimacy?

It's also funny how some people fail to understand there's more consequences from such a move. It's about whether (once you've purchased a license) you are able to simply use it, or whether it mandates continued intervention from a company to allow its use.

That goes far beyond whether or not you want your DAW connected to the internet. You are now reliant on that company in ways in which you would otherwise not be, and all in the name of "copy protection" which will be cracked anyway?

That IS a change from Steinberg's previous practices. What they are proposing is not perpetual licensing, which could (arguably) include one-off online activation btw. Instead, Yamaha are now saying that they will be the permanent middle man between you and your usage of their software. Why even demand you come back after a year?! WTF?!

On the (hopefully) distant day Yamaha's servers go offline, the difference with eLicenser is you are left with your licenses for as long as the dongle survives. With Yamaha's new methods you will be left with.. nothing.

Of course, possibilities are unlimited. Anything can happen. Did you really believe that a company like Steinberg would do single activation? It was more than obvious that they will do an online activation system.
This is why I was and I'm fine with a dongle. I didn't ask for a change to eLicenser. I'll have to live now with a new license system that I'm not a huge fan of. But what I can do. This is a typical situation where people are begging for something without even thinking about the potential outcomes. Here is the outcome. What a surprise that it's not like X or Y thought it's gonna be.
The problem is, no matter what Steinberg do, people will always find something to complain about. At their forum, people are already quitting because Steinberg introduced a subscription model... They read between the lines so they KNOW. Here and on other forums, people can't even read FAQ, instead, they're jumping directly to forums to spread drama about issues that don't even exist.
This is a classic panic mode and it will continue for the next few days if not longer.

Oh, and for those dismissive of such scenarios, perhaps they might consider that, yes, "going back to old projects" is actually a common thing for musicians to do! So it's kinda nice to think, 20 years from now, that someone can actually open their old music project! Thanks to emulation, historic precedence has shown that this is entirely possible, and the main barrier, to prevent this, tends to be copy protection.

Saving multi-track sessions as wav/aiff is a necessity. Who's not doing it, is doing a big mistake. It's the best hassle-free way to archive your work.
Remember that if you want to open a 20-year-old session, you also need to have not only all plugins but versions of those plugins that were used at that time. I would like to see someone who has installation for every version/update of every plugin used by the last 20 years.

[chk071]

It's also funny how some people fail to understand there's more consequences from such a move. It's about whether (once you've purchased a license) you are able to simply use it, or whether it mandates continued intervention from a company to allow its use.

Why do you speculate about whether or not it does? Why do you imply that it does? Wait and see. Talk is cheap. Very cheap, when it comes to sites like this.

[PAK]

I do get this argument and I have some sympathy with it, but it's largely theoretical.

I agree. Provided Cubase can (at least) maintain market share, it's likely not going anywhere - even if Yamaha implode. But that's not the same thing as their servers. If another company takes over there's a good chance they may not take the old servers with them, or do so only for a limited time. Goodbye old projects.

As said, this goes beyond "just" issues of activation, and anyone assuming that it's about the ownership of software are holding the wrong end of the stick. It's about ownership of your music, and to be able to edit it, for however far into the future you want to, without further action required by anyone else. THAT is the issue here.

If there's a "what if" element to all of that, it's being introduced entirely by the decisions on how to implement the copy protection. There is no need for it to be there in the way they're proposing, and Yamaha should consider alternatives. Not least because, these days, there's more reasons than ever why people will avoid using cracked versions due to malware risks! Plus there's easy ways to make the program annoying to use with cracks (Re U-he etc) so that those "who should be paying" will tend to do so.

[T-CM11]

It's funny how people are complaining now that the new system is also bad because now it will require the internet to check out a license. Like... what did they expect to get? To put CD-ROM to the drive to check legitimacy?
I have a feeling that those are the same people who were complaining that eLicenser is taking 1 USB port and they can't live with such an unbearable burden.

First world problems this week are sponsored by Steinberg

DRM is never good. DRM apologists are sales reps or suffer from stockholm syndrome. You know what you are.

[chk071]

Hooray, we finally reached bottom. This thread can only get better.

[Dunbar]

This is the end of a long road for me and Cubase; version 11 will be the last. My current rig is overspec'ed, so Cubase 11 will be deployed for a while, I hope. I'm sad to say BFD3 will be joining it on my depreciation list for the same reason: the need to phone home is a deal breaker.

I've been slowly migrating to software that requires a simple serial or keyfile; I hope the number of developers that offer this unlock method grows.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=541495

[PAK]

Saving multi-track sessions as wav/aiff is a necessity. Who's not doing it, is doing a big mistake. It's the best hassle-free way to archive your work.

You're right, and make a good point. Though it's still not nearly as nice as being able to actually edit with automation etc.

Remember that if you want to open a 20-year-old session, you also need to have not only all plugins but versions of those plugins that were used at that time. I would like to see someone who has installation for every version/update of every plugin used by the last 20 years.

Hehe.. Well, ironically, Steinberg have been extremely good about that with their FTP server! So, when it comes to their products, historically you've been in good shape. If there's a question mark over things, for some, it's perhaps been born since the Yamaha take over, and their approach to the software they now own..

[PAK]

Why do you speculate about whether or not it does? Why do you imply that it does? Wait and see. Talk is cheap. Very cheap, when it comes to sites like this.

Emm, maybe because I'm not speculating about the 30 day and 1 year check in requirement?! That's their publicly stated intent.

In other words - no permanent activation possible. This mandates their intervention, on at least a yearly basis, for you to be able to continue to use the product - even when you've paid for a perpetual license. Again, that's not speculation. Unless they make subsequent changes, that's how it stands presently.

I've stated in other posts why this is an issue, but it basically boils down to someones long term ability to edit their own music projects without further intervention. And, sure, those new servers might well still be there in 20 years, activating Cubase 12. But I'd say you're willing to take a bigger gamble, than I, if you think that's a likely scenario..

[noiseboyuk]

I do get this argument and I have some sympathy with it, but it's largely theoretical.

I agree. Provided Cubase can (at least) maintain market share, it's likely not going anywhere - even if Yamaha implode. But that's not the same thing as their servers. If another company takes over there's a good chance they may not take the old servers with them, or do so only for a limited time. Goodbye old projects.

That seems equally theoretical. Has this ever happened before? If someone buys up, they'll almost certainly buy the lot (since we're all wildly speculating).

As said, this goes beyond "just" issues of activation, and anyone assuming that it's about the ownership of software are holding the wrong end of the stick. It's about ownership of your music, and to be able to edit it, for however far into the future you want to, without further action required by anyone else. THAT is the issue here.

As Pixel85 says, there are so many things to break on old projects, the whole notion of just opening anything up from 10 years ago is fanciful. I've actually started taking to rendering out wavs at the end of a project, importing them into Pro Tools for a final mix stage (the media management there is infinitely better than Cubase for stuff like noise reduction etc). WAVs are very comforting. If you're serious about accessing old projects, something like that is the way to go imo.

[chk071]

Why do you speculate about whether or not it does? Why do you imply that it does? Wait and see. Talk is cheap. Very cheap, when it comes to sites like this.

Emm, maybe because I'm not speculating about the 30 day and 1 year check in requirement?!

You're really good at that. I mean leaving out important information, like the post I quoted when I replied. You said that something "mandates continued intervention from a company to allow its use.". Which basically could mean anything. Even having to phone call the company every time you want to use their product.

I'd really recommend a bit less selective reading, quoting, and, generally, understanding. Then you might stand a better chance to see things objectively, and realizing the needs of both sides. Then maybe you'll be able to judge things more fair. Although I highly doubt it.

[jancivil]

Yeah, just visted their forum, the plan now is now connection every 30 days, stated plainly. However they're taking a bit of a beating from the restless natives on it.
BFD Drums went from 30 to 90 in their SNAFU-ridden scheme after some beatdowns on their forum. But I'm not seeing softness from these guys so much.