Cubase 12 leaked on Steinberg's site

[sin night]

I upgraded regularly my Cubase license in the past few years (except for a brief period of time, when my computer didn't met the requirements and needed an upgrade), but this time I think I'm going to wait.

The requirement for periodic online checks makes me uncomfortable, I prefer to have a permanent license once activated. While I usually keep my software up to date and I would easily meet the requirement of having my daw online at least once a month (it's always connected to internet, but I use it only for updates), I feel safer by having a license that doesn't require a periodic renewal.
If, for whater reason, I'm unable to connect to internet for an extended period of time, I can't use my licensed software to make music. Same if I can't upgrade my pc and I'm forced to keep my version behind the current one and, at a certain point, they don't renew my paid license anymore because it's too old (maybe there are technical issues, the operating system on my computer may be old and unsafe to connect to the web).

I'll revisit this subject when the year-long activation option will be avaible, depending on the licensing conditions (especially in regards of keeping not-current versions licenses running in the longtime).
In practice, I should have no issue in my everyday use with the new licensing as described today, but giving up some control (the "activate once permanent license" of the eLicenser days) makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.

[VitaminD]

I prefer the eLicenser so I'm bummed that it is being completely discontinued.

I'm a bit untrusting of online authorizations/activations. And with the eLicenser it just calmly pulsed its red glow and churned away for years and years trouble free.

I noticed they will be introducing a way to activate Cubase for a 1 year period via a usb key for those without internet access on their workstation. That's nice. I wish it was a permanent activation for that version though on that PC. I see no reason for Steinberg to need to 'check' my PC every 30 days or even once annually. Once you've activated Cubase on that PC, nothing is changing unless you move to another PC (which will be recorded on the ID account as the generated key will only work for that specific PC).

That seems more like a way to pave the future for an annual subscription paid monthly service. Which is a bit concerning to me, despite their words otherwise!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Steinberg has been pushing "to move to VST3" for... is it over a decade now (must be, they said during SX3 days already "VST2 can't do side-chaining", which was the reason VST3 was pushed in the first place - to fix something they wou... er... "couldn't fix" in CubEndo)? Man, time flies.

We're currently on VST SDK 3.7.3...

I'm surprised we're not on VST4 yet, which actually plenty of developers I've been in touch with kind of hoped to happen at this point (fixing very, very annoying issues that need "workarounds" -- doesn't help that even Steinberg's own tools all interpret VST3 different! Yet it's always the 3rd party dev to blame)

From everything I've heard from developers, VST3 wasn't an upgrade on VST2, it was a new format entirely. Just as much as AAX isn't an update on VST2, or AU.

I'd hope that now that VST3 is becoming more widely accepted, that they don't go throw the baby out with the bathwater and not create a VST4. Or if they do create a VST4, that it's actually just an upgrade to VST3 versus a new format.

I suspect, Steiny won't be introducing anything called VST4 any time in the near future though.

[pixel85]

It's funny how people are complaining now that the new system is also bad because now it will require the internet to check out a license. Like... what did they expect to get? To put CD-ROM to the drive to check legitimacy?
I have a feeling that those are the same people who were complaining that eLicenser is taking 1 USB port and they can't live with such an unbearable burden.

First world problems this week are sponsored by Steinberg

DRM is never good. DRM apologists are sales reps or suffer from stockholm syndrome. You know what you are.

Where in my post I said anything positive about DRM?

[Sindikhate]

Footnote:
Maybe I should buy a spare Elicenser key, move my licenses just to be save (backup purposes) and drop my old key (that is... heck I don't know how old at this point). If Steinberg doesn't pull those keys from stores now. (also... the price went up for them? Holy crap!)

They are selling for 20-22 euros around here? How much was it before?

[jancivil]

price is lower than it used to be at VSL anyway, sweetwater I think as well. Guitar Center I think was the same as last time (30USD). If you buy VSL, buy their brand, Vienna Key and there's a 20 euro voucher right now.

[VitaminD]

Still no news of Cubase 12 features though right? Just an announcement of the Licensing system.

[elxsound]

Still no news of Cubase 12 features though right? Just an announcement of the Licensing system.

I think only because they slipped up and announced too early. But yes… no list of features for 12

[noiseboyuk]

Still no news of Cubase 12 features though right? Just an announcement of the Licensing system.

M1 support too, but that's it for anything concrete. More vaguely they say "We have been working on new features, workflows, and performance improvements in many different areas in order to deliver a worthy update".

[codec_spurt]

God bless Steinberg.

[vad.martyn]

I always prefer VST2 over VST3. With vst3 there are sometimes wrong presets being loaded on Kontakt and omnisphere upon project recall.

[VitaminD]

Music hasn't been fun for a while.

I'm still finding music production to be fun and a great creative outlet that helps me keep my sanity at times. But I had to refocus on what mattered to me.

Because I used to live in the forums and got little music done. Just making presets, trying out new synths and effects, and yacking on kvr threads as if it was deathly important.

Then I about had it with all the arguing and contrarian, snide remarks and stepped away. And just focused on music.

It became a lot better, the experience. Now I've moved a little bit back into kvr and other forums. But the key is limiting social media, including web forums. These sites, all over the internet on numerous different topics and themes, are not geared for polite, healthy discussion but instead for tribal, partisan, and self centered bickering over subjective topics. Not that it's all that way, but most of it is...

So I can applaud stepping away from it all. I think technical limitations is what gave us so much interesting music in the past too. Because it made the skills of the musician that much more important. But you have to make that call in what really works for you in your situation.

Maybe its an offline old PC with some specific software. Maybe its a hardware rig with no PC. Maybe its just a guitar and a 4 track recorder. Or simply just a break from music to pick up some other healthy outlet. Whatever it is, its probably best to take a break from the internet discussions before they break you.

[LoveEnigma18]

And when you are alone (have no friends who share the same interest) and are stuck at home, you need some way to interact with like-minded people and can't always be in the mood to "create music". This is why I visit forums and spend some time here. It feels good and as VitaminD said, it is better when it doesn't suck your entire day and when the discussion is constructive and no one is hurt. Because at the end of the day it's better to not ruin our or anyone else's mood when we get back to creating music. Looks like a bit off-topic, but anyway.

[LoveEnigma18]

Great Thanks for the info
So now just remained the 50% discount (although I would buy it with 40% as well if I were you It's a great drums tools with nice various kits, I'm using it inside S1 these days and it runs very well).

Welcome

Absolutely. In fact, even 30% discount might get me over the fence because I really liked demoing it and enjoying SE. As you rightly said, the kits/sounds are great and the overall features/tools are excellent.

[Sorry for the off-topic, but I am planning to buy KitMaker once I get Groove Agent 5. It is the cheapest and easiest way to convert all my Maschine/Komplete Expansions kits (70+ Expansions here in K13UCE), and perhaps Battery kits too, to kit folders containing samples that I can easily use with Groove Agent 5.]

[Compyfox]

From everything I've heard from developers, VST3 wasn't an upgrade on VST2, it was a new format entirely. Just as much as AAX isn't an update on VST2, or AU.

No, it was pretty much an "upgrade" -- RTAS to AAX was a complete different thing (rewrite, new SDK, native 64bit support that wasn't there before, RTAS was completely nuked from orbit).

From working with third parts devs, the VST SDK can easily export VST2 (backwards compatibility), heck in certain cased I could even rename a VST3 to VST2.dll and it worked (this was a stupid test I did many years ago, just because I was bored and I could - don't remember anymore if this was a beta, or a regular plugin... too long ago).

The problem is, that if the plugin is not in the program files/common files/.. folder, nothing works. Oh and... "folder sorting"... always fun. Doesn't matter which Steinberg product I use.

...plus the needed workarounds for like every single different Steinberg product.

I'd hope that now that VST3 is becoming more widely accepted, that they don't go throw the baby out with the bathwater and not create a VST4. Or if they do create a VST4, that it's actually just an upgrade to VST3 versus a new format.

VST3 is a disaster on various fronts (it can completely bricks a host if loaded - been there, done that... what works in Wavelab, can completely brick Cubase - what works in Cubase, might not even run in Wavelab - and that's not even bringing up Studio One that needs their own workarounds, which was made by former Steinberg devs!), and is still being criticized to this day. It does add literally zero to the core functionality of an effect (except the "auto off" if not signal runs through it, and even that can be circumvented with "analog simulation" - constant running noise). VST2 could do(!!!) side chaining and multi channels (see Sonar, Studio One, Reaper).

Only CubEndo didn't allow it.

And since Steinberg didn't want to address this, they just... brushed it under the rug and "moved on" to VST3 (I still remember the comments on "only VST3 can...", right! There are plenty of VST2 plugins for Ambisonics with up to 7th Order, than can have way over 50 channels! Cubase can do Ambisonics up to 3rd Order, but more then 6 channels?! AH HELL NO! "Nuendo only!"). Heck, even MPE for synths isn't as widely implemented as you might think (yet it's a "huge selling point for VST3!). Now we're also talking MIDI 2.0.

A VST4 SDK has been rumored for about 3-4 years now, maybe more (again, lost track). I've yet to see it. And it really looks like Steinberg will "deprecate VST2" now, as they hinted at with Cubase 8 already (even though they promised backwards compatibility). So consider the "not working on M1" a warning... the only warning even. And who knows what they come up with for the hybrid i7/i9 12th Gen Intel chipsets that just got released.


If that is happening with Cubase 12 already... time to look for a new host, as 80% of my tools are still VST2 (some of them which I will never be able to replace, and they're still essential to my workflow), and there is no VST2 to VST3 wrapper - yet. Cubase 11 is not the stable thing people say it is (and certain "versatility thing" are important for me, see plenty of my comments above).

Thank you again for nothing, Apple. (still pissed at you for pushing HDDs and telling the industry "ain't nobody needs an optical drive!")

I suspect, Steiny won't be introducing anything called VST4 any time in the near future though.

Again, VST SDK v4 has been rumored for years. There have been plenty of petitions to get third party devs properly involved with Steinberg to finally fix the SDK. But I've lost track.

Now I'm even more worried about the future of CubEndo. And I'm on WIndows!

They are selling for 20-22 euros around here? How much was it before?

Some stores tried to sell me the key for 30-35 bucks. It usually always was <20 EUR though. Guess not anymore - and again, "for how long" considering the announcement.

I noticed they will be introducing a way to activate Cubase for a 1 year period via a usb key for those without internet access on their workstation. That's nice. I wish it was a permanent activation for that version though on that PC. I see no reason for Steinberg to need to 'check' my PC every 30 days or even once annually.

Same, this treatment needs to stop!

This is why I am not on the Roland Cloud, despite me really wanting some of those ROMplers. Even though you can buy perpetual(!!!) licenses, you still need "irregular online checks" within 3-7 days to see if you have a legit license. It is always the legit users that are punished.

There are still legit reasons for "offline only" rigs. Maybe your setup is in a dedicated basement without online access, and/or Faraday Cage (good luck getting WLAN then), and a 50m LAN cable is not a solution. There is also the infamous WLAN/LAN overloads on iMacs.

Sadly, there are way too many companies that "push you to work permanently online". "Everyone is online these days, what is the big deal?!". Right...

Once you've activated Cubase on that PC, nothing is changing unless you move to another PC (which will be recorded on the ID account as the generated key will only work for that specific PC).

No, seriously... they could easily reach out to Brainworx/Plugin Alliance or similar, or create something that properly works just like that on their own (if they wanted to).

The "Alliance" offers licenses on any bog-standard USB key. I've moved my key a couple of times, I never ran into any issue at all, no matter which computer I've used it on. Just install one plugin, link to the key, all other installations find the same location. Done.

No nonsense, no insane extra code routines that need to check your plugin every 30s to 5 minutes, no "license updates every 30 days...tops". It works, it's barely intrusive. It was what the industry wanted in early 2000s already (heck, even Waves offers "licenses on a bog standard USB key", without forcing you to check in every 30 days, let that sink in for a moment).

Why not finally do it?!
...oh wait!

<rant>

I totally feel you there. The one party that could properly sort this all out, is Steinberg. Yet the only thing they do, is "keep things vague" and say "just wait, you'll love it!", like always. Just look at the official text, and them saying plenty of times "engine will be worked on for the next 1-2 years, with new features to come", clearly pushing "online only" and "online checks" (which will lead to subscription models), despite not offering a subscription model... yet. The message is clear - "pure offline/buy and forget, is dead!".

Why else do you think that the Cubase Project Launcher always tries to connect to their news page? But what if that page breaks, or the server is down? Back to the "Elicense Activation Server issue" it is. I'm with @rasmusklump on this one - can hardly wait for the first complaints - and they will come!

I mean, not surprised on KVR Audio - the representatives were... er... I'll leave it at that. No use wasting time on this topic. But vague statements, "the rest is on the forum", and you have to dig through oodles of comments to even get a glimpse of information? If third party developers have more information to share than Steinberg is willing to do, because they are actually reliant on their userbase... and it's more information (time frames!) than your official statement... I'm sorry, but then you've done messed up!

This is a huge change. More objective communication needs to happen in this case. Not just on the day of release. And quite honestly, the posted "New License Engine FAQ" is really scaring people off.


But as plenty of us "old cats" already brought up several times... it looks like we're the wrong target audience at this point. "The young ones", the laptop jockeys, can hardly wait to "get the best CubEndo there is", because of course it will be.


Well then... good night and good luck then