Cubase 12 leaked on Steinberg's site

[_leras]

So yea cool. I will get Cubase 12. I use Nuendo, but had a spare license. Good to activate before I cannot anymore ha.

I reckon you would have still been able activate. If paid for I'm sure you'd be handled fairly!

Nice that you got the up to date version!

[vurt]

I will be deleting every single f**king post I ever made on this website. Bar none. Don't take it personal.

again?

[_leras]

For software preservation purposes its a serious issue if in the future it becomes impossible to run old versions of Cubase that you paid for. USB dongles are not indestructible, they will fail at some point and if it happens after the license servers shuts down you lose your investment instantly. This is a $600 piece of software with $100 annual updates - that is very anti-consumer! Maybe piracy is a good thing for the long term preservation of discontinued software?

I doubt they will force people to upgrade. And your dongle will still work.

What I would say is that Cubase has done a great job on maintaining backwards compatibility of projects for a long time now. I can load really old projects and my biggest issue is that I've moved from libraries, or not installed a plug in I stopped using, i.e. not Cubase issues.

I think they very worst case is that "at some point in the future you might want to update to a version with the new licensing activation". It's not all that expensive, and depending on the version you use currently, could even be a really good thing to do.

[_leras]

I find it rather strange to see people mention 'workflow' as though it's objective. You want Cubase to be Ableton, many of us _really_ do not.
SB catering to y'all has meant some broken workflow for me.
"Nobody asked for Squasher", well, I sure didn't, but this is exactly catering to the EDM way o' life.

There are some things Cubase could adopt. It's so deep though I think it would be hard to change things too much.

My biggest wish is quite a simple one, that I can have cubase in a single window, with the dark background that covers my desktop fully, and that I can extend over two screens, and maybe with some better options to lock particular windows in place.

This is a request based on how bitwig works for me. It's straightforward and has very little fiddling. I do get though that Cubase has more customisation of layout and that you can save multiple layouts, but the lack of being able to have the whole app in a single window I find annoying.

*I dislike pretty much any app with multiple floating windows over me desktop. I much prefer a container window for an app.

[PAK]

The notion that switching copy protection from a dongle to a different method would, on a fundamental level, wreck making-music itself is a piece of psychology that is fascinating to me.

Is that really your take? C'mon.. If someone's feelings go -that- deep it (should) be perfectly evident that it's just one piece of some wider group of issues / concerns for them, whether they state it or not.

You start by creating a picture of "this forum of very angry men", which made me think of the Grandpa Simpson headline "Old man shakes fist at cloud" and how they'd predicted the future yet again. But, apart from the patent absurdity of painting so many people with such a broad brush (plus you're posting here, so I guess you're angry too! ) "anger" also conjures up notions of "irrational" people, with thoughts driven more by emotions than logic.

Thus, even if not your intention, your response has tinges of implying anyone, who objects to Steinberg's actions, is "an angry man". Their objections neither "reasonable" nor "thought out". Plus it's a tad over-dramatic with its "forum full of angry men". Though, I suppose, it's not to be unexpected if the general attitude is one of not considering any of this stuff to be an issue! (IE What's the big fuss? Aren't others "over-reacting"? etc. )

The issue has not been helped by Yamaha which, amongst other things, has been disingenuous in their attempts to reclassify what a perpetual license means. "It's perpetual on our cloud servers!". It also ignores that much of the reason, people want a perpetual license, isn't because "muh internet access" but because they want the ability to continue to be able to access their data if Yamaha's Cloud service doesn't exist.

Even if you think Cubase will still be around in 20 years (and I think that's less of a certainty than some seem to think!) is it unreasonable for a user to ask for that level of reassurance and control? It seems, to some people, that it is! If you detect any additional element to things, it perhaps stems from the fact that the "data", in this case, isn't just some spreadsheet. It's your creative output.

So, in some sense, perhaps you misframe the issue. For some it might be about how they don't always have internet access etc (or can't connect due to contractual obligations). I'd say Yamaha are in the process of providing a solution for those people. But for those, who seek to entirely remove Yamaha from the equation, regarding your ability for continued access to edit your data, they are providing no such solution.

[xoxos]

There is something very wrong with how this whole music making trip has ended up.

the part where it's entertainment rather than deliberate action with social pertinence.

[noiseboyuk]

PAK - no, it's definitely the rage, the not-only-shakes-fist-at-sky-but-blames-sky-for-wrecking-his-life that makes me so baffled (and I'll confess intrigued).

I can understand a preference for one form of copy protection over another, I can't understand elevating it to be a tyrannical attack on freedom, humanity etc. It would indeed, on the face of it, seem like over-reacting to be in such rage. Not everyone who doesn't like this move is, of course, that angry. But it's perhaps the nature of forums in general and KVR in particular via it's moderating decisions that the most angry, the most vitroiolic, tend to dominate. Hence the overall impression is that it is full of very angry men.

[dellboy]

PAK - no, it's definitely the rage, the not-only-shakes-fist-at-sky-but-blames-sky-for-wrecking-his-life that makes me so baffled (and I'll confess intrigued).

I can understand a preference for one form of copy protection over another, I can't understand elevating it to be a tyrannical attack on freedom, humanity etc. It would indeed, on the face of it, seem like over-reacting to be in such rage. Not everyone who doesn't like this move is, of course, that angry. But it's perhaps the nature of forums in general and KVR in particular via it's moderating decisions that the most angry, the most vitroiolic, tend to dominate. Hence the overall impression is that it is full of very angry men.

What moderating decisions?

Where are the moderators ?

[chk071]

Well exactly.

Who gives a crap anyway. Steinberg's indicator for the validity of their decision isn't the bla of some loudmouths on internet forums. Their responsibles calculate with other things.

[vurt]

anger is an energy

i use kvr to power my modular.

[Dunbar]

It would indeed, on the face of it, seem like over-reacting to be in such rage. Not everyone who doesn't like this move is, of course, that angry.

Anger is an energy.

Many of us are heavily invested in Cubase, some have used the sequencer for three decades, or more. It's quite a shock to discover we are about to become dependant upon a connection to another computer in order for our software to function. This is not a situation I could have anticipated.

One of the fundamental rules of DAW hygiene is: no internet. I have observed this rule since the days of dialup modems and, to date, have not suffered a single malware issue. I intend to keep it this way.

I understand such a rule will be an anathema to younger people, but, to an old fella whose livelihood continues to depend on software tools, it's a rule I will not break.

[chk071]

Anger is an energy.

If you run a restaurant, and, on an evening, the restaurant is full of people, who are all happy with the food you served, but, there is this big fat wanker, who is pissed off about everything, and shouts the house down, would you throw out the rest, and serve the guy as if he was a king, although you know that he will never be happy, with anything you do?

This isn't meant as talking down the people with valid objections. It's about the people who will never be happy with anything the companies do to try to make a living, on a tough market, with tough people they need to sell stuff to.

And, regarding the guy with 3 letters in his nickname: I'm not even sure if he even uses Steinberg products. I doubt it, TBH.

[PAK]

PAK - no, it's definitely the rage, the not-only-shakes-fist-at-sky-but-blames-sky-for-wrecking-his-life that makes me so baffled (and I'll confess intrigued).

I can understand a preference for one form of copy protection over another, I can't understand elevating it to be a tyrannical attack on freedom, humanity etc.

Hmm, as I said, I think if it literally causes someone to "stop making music" then it's not about one particular issue for them, even if they frame it such. So applying it to a specific topic is questionable logic, other than to say that it's perhaps part of wider trends. EG, In this case, "the cloud" and the issues it presents - particularly into the longer term.

In a perfect world it would all be a non-issue. There'd be complete, open, universal DAW import/export industry standards, instead of the present reality - where your best bet is still to use methods developed 30-40 years ago.. IE export wav files or even MIDI! Of course, the practicalities of doing so (even beyond getting everyone to agree), make that fairly unrealistic.

The last 50 years of software history has demonstrated that there IS another way. But that puts people in the ridiculous position of having to wait, until something is cracked, before there's greater certainty that it's not going to be an issue into the longer term! Plus encryption continues to get better, and the copy protection ever more complex. I don't think Cubase was ever cracked after version 5, for example(?). So it's far from an ideal "solution" for multiple reasons.

It would be really nice if Steinberg found a way to acknowledge and address the issue though. EG They could create a "no cloud required" version where no changes were possible, but which allowed you to import, examine, and export files etc. That would entirely resolve the issue for me, and allow them to continue with what they are doing, entirely unchanged, and without even having to provide a true perpetual unlock!

But it's perhaps the nature of forums in general and KVR in particular via it's moderating decisions that the most angry, the most vitroiolic, tend to dominate. Hence the overall impression is that it is full of very angry men.

I dunno, I think it's the internet in general, and related to divorced thought processes and peoples actions. IE I'm not replying to "you", the person, I'm replying to a forum persona. I'm engaging with a wireless keyboard, and a 4K display, rather than a real person. Unfortunately, I think the proposed "cure" (everyone must ID themselves before going online etc) is worse than the "problem" in a lot of ways.

[Trancit]

One of the fundamental rules of DAW hygiene is: no internet. I have observed this rule since the days of dialup modems and, to date, have not suffered a single malware issue. I intend to keep it this way.

I understand such a rule will be an anathema to younger people, but, to an old fella whose livelihood continues to depend on software tools, it's a rule I will not break.

I hope nobody is listening to you...

One of the fundamental rules of DAW hygiene... what a bullshit!

I was always online without any protection at all but with all the freedom I liked to have...
And you know what: ... to date (after more than 26 years of DAWs and internet), have not suffered a single malware issue... I intend to keep it this way too...

People like you are stating things without the slightest proof... how will you know that your measures have had any impact at all??

[noiseboyuk]

What moderating decisions?

Where are the moderators ?

Three of my posts suggesting things were getting slightly ludicrous were removed, while all of the vitriol stayed happily intact.

EDIT - whoops I had my argumentative threads mixed up - this happened elsewhere on KVR. Sorry.