Synapse Audio - Dune 3.5 Released

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
machine_spirit
KVRist
96 posts since 10 Aug, 2021

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:05 am

Arguably Synapse Audio themselves has as much claim to a genetic preset as the authors of the source presets, having designed the tool. There would certainly be something distasteful about a soundbank consisting of nothing but other people's presets smashed together in a low effort manner but i think it's futile (and the greater evil) to try and control this somehow. Machine learning and all that stuff is going to be even worse as far as sound designers go (i.e the sound design process can be largely automated which leads to the value of the work sinking into the abyss).

I'm getting some great stuff out of the genetics function in just the demo and AFAIK it's not "intelligent" - just imagine if it could adapt according to what presets you save and which you discard etc. At some point it wouldn't even need any source presets. :help: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg:

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Richard_Synapse
KVRian
1097 posts since 20 Dec, 2010

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:13 am

machine_spirit wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:05 am
I'm getting some great stuff out of the genetics function in just the demo and AFAIK it's not "intelligent" - just imagine if it could adapt according to what presets you save and which you discard etc. At some point it wouldn't even need any source presets. :help: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg:
That would be cool! Due to DUNE 3's complexity, however, human sound designers will be needed for some time to come :) Regardless we can of course improve Genetics further. The next logical step forward would be to remove some of the "duds" it can produce, or add some kind of control over the result, as has been suggested earlier in the thread.

Richard
Synapse Audio Software - www.synapse-audio.com

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Biome_Digital
KVRAF
1660 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:26 am

Richard_Synapse wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:13 am
machine_spirit wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:05 am
I'm getting some great stuff out of the genetics function in just the demo and AFAIK it's not "intelligent" - just imagine if it could adapt according to what presets you save and which you discard etc. At some point it wouldn't even need any source presets. :help: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg: :borg:
That would be cool! Due to DUNE 3's complexity, however, human sound designers will be needed for some time to come :) Regardless we can of course improve Genetics further. The next logical step forward would be to remove some of the "duds" it can produce, or add some kind of control over the result, as has been suggested earlier in the thread.

Richard
Thank god!! I think making it more random and less of a variation of presets would help to protect us hardworking sound designers. :)

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Teksonik
KVRAF
16474 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:46 am

vurt wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:01 am
theres also the challenge aspect, im gonna write a track with the first 5 randomised presets no matter what!
can be fun, you guys remember "fun"?
Sure it's a ton of fun for me to make patches. I do it every day which was my whole point that others will find it fun as well if they just take a little time to learn a few basics.

It's very rewarding to start with nothing and end up with a cool sound that you will like and use rather than leaving it up to an algorithm.

Hitting a randomize button over and over hoping to get the sound you're looking for doesn't seem like a whole lot of fun to me.

I realize some people are always in a hurry but I'd rather get it right than get it right now.

Personally I hope Synapse doesn't spend another second of precious development time on these training wheel features like randomize but they're going to do what they think is best so I happily go along for the ride.

I'd be happy to call DUNE 3 finished at least for now and move on to something new..... :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Caine123
KVRAF
6763 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:19 am

I loooove randomizers and test them in all vsts i got which features it and the genetics function is limited but really nice. You cannot expect to get from init (doesnt work but save 2 init üatches and then hit function) and get a bread and butter saw, pad, drone etc.
So with all dislikes to random features it never replaces hand made presets so far for me. Not at all, mostly nice variations or instead of watching brainwashing tv i hit rather the randomizer lol
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e-musician
KVRist
130 posts since 4 Feb, 2015

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:41 am

Teksonik wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:23 am
Richard_Synapse wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:03 am
Go ahead! 8)
Richard
Ok cool! I'll start with the Orange version and see how it goes...... :)


Large orange


D3 Orange.png
Thank you, Teksonik! :tu:

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Teksonik
KVRAF
16474 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:45 am

e-musician wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:41 am
Thank you, Teksonik! :tu:
You're welcome. Let me know if you find any issues. :)
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik
KVRAF
16474 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:56 am

Caine123 wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:19 am
instead of watching brainwashing tv i hit rather the randomizer lol
Or you could spend that time improving your sound design skills. :shrug:

If you could hit one giant randomize button to create whole songs would you find that artistically satisfying ?

I wouldn't but to each his own......... :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

sQeetz
KVRian
676 posts since 8 Jan, 2005

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:01 am

Caine123 wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:19 am
...mostly nice variations or instead of watching brainwashing tv i hit rather the randomizer lol
Spotted the "free thinker".. ï dOnT eVeN hAVe a teeVeEEE"... :roll: :hihi:
MacBook Pro M1 . 16GB . 1TB . . Logic Pro……Renoise……Reason

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zvenx
KVRAF
10463 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:23 am

Teksonik wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:23 am
Richard_Synapse wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:03 am
Go ahead! 8)
Richard
Ok cool! I'll start with the Orange version and see how it goes...... :)


Large orange


D3 Orange.png
Thanks for this.. It has already became my default skin.
rsp
sound sculptist

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Teksonik
KVRAF
16474 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:49 am

zvenx wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:23 am
Thanks for this.. It has already became my default skin.
rsp
Cool! Mine too. All credit goes to the authors of the original artwork I just tweaked it to taste. :)
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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HTT
KVRist
172 posts since 14 Jul, 2019

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:03 am

I purchased Dune today after going back and forth about purchasing it over a couple of years. I have other soft synths that overlap, sonically, with Dune hence, my being indecisive.

I find Dune rather easy to get around and tweak presets. I really appreciate the genetics feature. I have created the beginning of a couple patches in a very short time. I appreciate the browser but I would like it further refined, a la u-he.

Caine123
KVRAF
6763 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:28 am

Teksonik wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:56 am
Caine123 wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:19 am
instead of watching brainwashing tv i hit rather the randomizer lol
Or you could spend that time improving your sound design skills. :shrug:

If you could hit one giant randomize button to create whole songs would you find that artistically satisfying ?

I wouldn't but to each his own......... :tu:
sure, or do sports, bake a cheesecake or whatever :D. so why downplay a nice feature at all? no need to use it. and of course tv watching can be done too, some non.-daily soaps are still on tv so i correct my "brainwashing" comment :D cause it seems you get with each word put in some categories...
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Teksonik
KVRAF
16474 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:46 pm

Caine123 wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:28 am
so why downplay a nice feature at all?
For the same reason people support Randomize. I'm expressing my opinion.

Keep in mind that every minute of development time spent on Randomize is a minute not spent on a feature that will actually expand or enhance the sounds DUNE 3 can make.

Randomize doesn't bring new parameters, it doesn't bring expanded parameter ranges. It brings nothing that isn't already available now. Anything that Randomize can do can already be done by simply learning how to program the synth.

I prefer features that will expand the range of sounds DUNE 3 can make. Like I've said before we're getting to the point where people are asking for pretty bows and ribbons to be put on the box that won't change what's inside the box at all.

Randomize might make things easier for some people but new features that expand the sound will benefit everybody in the long run.

Again Synapse will do what they think is best regardless of my opinion but as long as people are allowed to want something I'm allowed to want something else.

To me Randomize would be a total waste of time but if that's what a lot people want and it sells more copies of DUNE 3 then go for it. But it won't change my opinion that it's a waste of time. :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

machine_spirit
KVRist
96 posts since 10 Aug, 2021

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:49 pm

Richard_Synapse wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:13 am
The next logical step forward would be to remove some of the "duds" it can produce, or add some kind of control over the result, as has been suggested earlier in the thread.
I agree. Some way to indicate what kind of sound you're looking for (in a very basic sense, like a pad or a pluck) could make it easier to combine a wider variety of sounds from different categories.
Biome_Digital wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:26 am
Thank god!! I think making it more random and less of a variation of presets would help to protect us hardworking sound designers.
Perhaps having a minimum of three presets for the genetics tool would make you less worried? Not sure what that would achieve though, ethically i mean. If Synapse Audio doesn't provide these tools somebody else will, that's just how it works. If i remember correctly, some Tone2 synth already has a kind of automatic patch creation based on machine learning. Basically some algorithm chewing through a mountain of presets and taking note of the patterns in them as a whole. Or something like that. Rather like humans actually.

#VotesForSynths
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:46 am
I realize some people are always in a hurry but I'd rather get it right than get it right now.
Sound design is difficult. Going by how popular soundbanks are (even though the average quality is rather low IMO) most people seem to agree with this. I also struggle to imagine someone always or even most of the time, knowing exactly what kind of sound would be perfect for a given context, to the point where they could just quickly dial it in from a blank slate. In fact it sounds utterly absurd to me but i'm not familiar with every workflow and genre out there so maybe i'm just ignorant.

The genetics feature gives you the power of presets combined with some level of unique flavor, avoiding issues like feeling forced to tweak a good preset because you would feel like a fraud otherwise. It's probably a pretty good way to learn some sound design too.

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