Synapse Audio - Dune 3.5 Released

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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Teksonik
KVRAF
16501 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:41 pm

machine_spirit wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:49 pm
Sound design is difficult

Nah it's easy...if you put in a little effort. I'm an idiot and I can do it so.....
machine_spirit wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:49 pm
I also struggle to imagine someone always or even most of the time, knowing exactly what kind of sound would be perfect for a given context, to the point where they could just quickly dial it in from a blank slate..
I struggle to imagine that Randomize will know exactly what kind of sound would be perfect for a given context. Can Randomize create usable sounds? Sure sometimes but can it create the exact sound you're looking for in little time ? The odds are far less it can than someone who knows sound design being able to quickly dial in what they want.

DUNE 3 has been out since 2018 and now all of a sudden people need Randomize. It's just the fad of the day.. :shrug:
machine_spirit wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:49 pm
The genetics feature gives you the power of presets combined with some level of unique flavor, avoiding issues like feeling forced to tweak a good preset because you would feel like a fraud otherwise. It's probably a pretty good way to learn some sound design too.
Keep in mind Genetics and Randomize are two different things. Genetics takes two or three sets of known parameter values and creates a third set. Randomize creates a random set of parameters within the constraints placed on it by the code. For example Randomize would be programed so it never sets the Master volume at 100% and so on.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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4damind
KVRAF
5502 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:02 pm

The browser is great, as is the drag and drop modulation assignment.
What I'm still missing now: a wavetable browser. I can imagine that users who use a lot of wavtables go crazy when they have to search for an entry in this list.
Something else comes to my mind... I generally leave multithreading disabled in Dune because it never worked for me... I always had crackles and other noises.
Has anything changed in the multithreading area? Or asked differently, does MT make sense at all with Dune and does someone use it successfully under Windows (on the Mac it looks possibly different)?
Last edited by 4damind on Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Biome_Digital
KVRAF
1671 posts since 9 Jan, 2014 from Worldwide

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:09 pm

machine_spirit wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:49 pm
Richard_Synapse wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:13 am
The next logical step forward would be to remove some of the "duds" it can produce, or add some kind of control over the result, as has been suggested earlier in the thread.
I agree. Some way to indicate what kind of sound you're looking for (in a very basic sense, like a pad or a pluck) could make it easier to combine a wider variety of sounds from different categories.
Biome_Digital wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:26 am
Thank god!! I think making it more random and less of a variation of presets would help to protect us hardworking sound designers.
Perhaps having a minimum of three presets for the genetics tool would make you less worried? Not sure what that would achieve though, ethically i mean. If Synapse Audio doesn't provide these tools somebody else will, that's just how it works. If i remember correctly, some Tone2 synth already has a kind of automatic patch creation based on machine learning. Basically some algorithm chewing through a mountain of presets and taking note of the patterns in them as a whole. Or something like that. Rather like humans actually.

#VotesForSynths
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:46 am
I realize some people are always in a hurry but I'd rather get it right than get it right now.
Sound design is difficult. Going by how popular soundbanks are (even though the average quality is rather low IMO) most people seem to agree with this. I also struggle to imagine someone always or even most of the time, knowing exactly what kind of sound would be perfect for a given context, to the point where they could just quickly dial it in from a blank slate. In fact it sounds utterly absurd to me but i'm not familiar with every workflow and genre out there so maybe i'm just ignorant.

The genetics feature gives you the power of presets combined with some level of unique flavor, avoiding issues like feeling forced to tweak a good preset because you would feel like a fraud otherwise. It's probably a pretty good way to learn some sound design too.
I'm not to bothered to be honest. I just want proper ranomization as well. Some of the most inspiring sounds I've heard have been random😁

smd12
KVRist
270 posts since 25 Jan, 2010

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:46 pm

I might be completely off topic here but randomization is the greatest thing ever. I use it all the time on Absynth. Do you get workable sounds all the time? No. But you do get some great sounds...I guess if you aren't doing anything pop or mainstream. If Dune 3 had a randomization but I would be using it all the time.

sQeetz
KVRian
702 posts since 8 Jan, 2005

Post Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:15 pm

Wish I had waited a while before buying it. Didn't really think Synapse would do a BF sale. :) Afar from that it's pretty awesome
MacBook Pro M1 . 16GB . 1TB . . Logic Pro……Renoise……Reason

machine_spirit
KVRist
96 posts since 10 Aug, 2021

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:31 am

Teksonik wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:41 pm
I struggle to imagine that Randomize will know exactly what kind of sound would be perfect for a given context. Can Randomize create usable sounds? Sure sometimes but can it create the exact sound you're looking for in little time ? The odds are far less it can than someone who knows sound design being able to quickly dial in what they want.
I thought you were talking about the genetics feature in some sense (and i was about to correct you in the same manner that you did, regarding the difference between genetics and random...). I mean the quote below implies this
Teksonik wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:46 am
Personally I hope Synapse doesn't spend another second of precious development time on these training wheel features like randomize
I realize you were talking about full randomization, in which case i agree with you. It's fun but definitely not efficient.

I hope they continue with the genetics feature rather than add a full randomization tool, the former is arguably a straight upgrade of the latter, assuming you're looking for pleasant sounds and not weird noises, which true randomization leads to 95% of the time in my experience. Sure, if you throw enough time at it... But indeed at that point you might as well just learn sound design.

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future-bit
Banned
505 posts since 23 Jan, 2008

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:06 am

This is why I am not happy that Orion is no longer developing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCO_4sFXP4k

Caine123
KVRAF
6790 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:22 am

future-bit wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:06 am
This is why I am not happy that Orion is no longer developing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCO_4sFXP4k
Oh wow! I did want to demo Orion but seems it is not sold anymore?
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

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Teksonik
KVRAF
16501 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:13 am

Caine123 wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:22 am
future-bit wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:06 am
This is why I am not happy that Orion is no longer developing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCO_4sFXP4k
Oh wow! I did want to demo Orion but seems it is not sold anymore?
Development of Orion stopped somewhere around 2015-ish if memory serves me correctly. You might put a "Wanted to Buy" add in the Marketplace to see if someone has a copy to sell which I think was allowed. Other than that it is no longer sold on the Synapse site.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik
KVRAF
16501 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:34 am

Biome_Digital wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:09 pm
I just want proper ranomization as well.
But think it through. How complex would a Randomize function have to be to work in a synth like DUNE 3 ?

Would it load a random sample in Osc 3 in some layers? Would it load random Wavetables in some Oscs on some layers then apply a random modulator to scan the WTs?

Would it choose between VA,FM,WT, and Sample Oscs for each layer? Would it randomize one layer, all layers, some layers? Would it choose both FX lanes or only one and which of the nine FX and all of their variations would it choose? Would it use both Filters available in each layer or only one on which layers and which of the 31 filters will it choose and on and on?

It just seems like a randomize algorithm would have to be insanely complex to yield useful results and at the same time not yield any "dangerous" results that would result in high volumes etc.

Do others complex synths like Rapid or Avenger have a randomize function? I don't see one in either and there is probably a good reason for that. Most likely because it would not be practical or the time needed to develop such a complex algorithm wouldn't be worth the effort. :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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vurt
addled muppet weed
88712 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:58 am

reaktor is fairly complex :shrug:

AnX
KVRAF

Topic Starter

10394 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:54 am

vurt wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:58 am
reaktor is fairly complex :shrug:
only if you make it so

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vurt
addled muppet weed
88712 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:00 am

AnX wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:54 am
vurt wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:58 am
reaktor is fairly complex :shrug:
only if you make it so
the randomisation still works though, from the simplest ensemble to the most complex.

and id argue that the modular nature of the package, even just using the simplest routing, and still having the random function work, whether an idiot like me builds the ensemble or a genius, means it must be quite possible to have it in those other synths, which while being modular in nature, don't involve any rebuilding n stuff.

getting it hooked to midi, so i can randomise in the middle of playing, now that's cool! 8)

Caine123
KVRAF
6790 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:41 am

Teksonik wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:13 am
Caine123 wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:22 am
future-bit wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:06 am
This is why I am not happy that Orion is no longer developing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCO_4sFXP4k
Oh wow! I did want to demo Orion but seems it is not sold anymore?
Development of Orion stopped somewhere around 2015-ish if memory serves me correctly. You might put a "Wanted to Buy" add in the Marketplace to see if someone has a copy to sell which I think was allowed. Other than that it is no longer sold on the Synapse site.
good tip, thx :tu:
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

Synth Master Jedi
KVRist
182 posts since 21 Jun, 2013

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:40 am

I had heard some sound examples from this synth, so I already knew that I liked the sound, but I demoed it a few days ago to see how it ran on my system and how it looked in my DAW and one of the first things I check when I try out a new plugin is to see how the GUI looks and if I could resize it.

In the demo of Dune, there were two choices for GUI size if I recall correctly. The smallest was too small for my taste and the large was slightly bigger, but it could still be bigger in my opinion.

After I demoed it for a few minutes, I decided to buy it, because it passed my GUI size test, but just barely.

Imagine my surprise when I bought it and I downloaded the full version and I go to resize it and I see more GUI options that were not there in the demo version and there was an option called "HUGE", which I obviously chose and the plugin now looks great on my monitor now.

Had the GUI been slightly smaller in the demo version, then I probably would've passed on this plugin, but I'm real glad that I bought it now, because not only does it sound good, but it also looks good and HUGE on my display, and both of those things are important to me.

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