When you find that everything has been done already?

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
CinningBao
KVRAF
2083 posts since 15 Apr, 2004 from Capital City, UK

Post Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:24 am

xoxos wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:10 am
how many even percussion synths using multidimensional oscillators?
I will give you money for this.

Can you turn this maths into sound as well?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_h ... oscillator

User avatar
Old Nick
Banned
66 posts since 21 Jul, 2021 from Over There.

Post Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:47 am

soundmodel wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:08 am
When you find that everything has been done already?

I find that a large portion of audio processing is not scientifically particularly novel, but merely some small reiteration on well-known principles. This saddens me.

But this also sparked the thought that "does this mean that everything doable has been done already"?
Ecclesiastes ch 1

xoxos
Mr Entertainment
12372 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid

Post Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:51 am

CinningBao wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:24 am
xoxos wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:10 am
how many even percussion synths using multidimensional oscillators?
I will give you money for this.

Can you turn this maths into sound as well?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_h ... oscillator
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/angle-by-xoxos
although i don't know what happened to all the download links :asingletear:

the oscillator is very simple - 2d rotations for a 3d object producing gimbal lock (the lack of the fundamental). loved using it.

it'd be sweet to get the same kind of thing working with analog.
https://hackaday.com/2014/12/07/chaos-t ... s-circuit/
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

camsr
KVRAF
7126 posts since 17 Feb, 2005

Post Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:44 pm

soundmodel wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:08 am
When you find that everything has been done already?
Tweak the knobs :love:

User avatar
Urs
u-he
26202 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:53 am

soundmodel wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:08 am
When you find that everything has been done already?
I'd have a look at the Eurorack scene and the plethora of concepts which have no equivalent in plug-in space.

xoxos
Mr Entertainment
12372 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid

Post Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:26 am

i think we've arranged mass springs in a linear fashion (loved the dynamic response!) in planar and solid fashion for academics, but just yesterday i was thinking, i doubt anyone's arranged mass springs (or anything else) in a fashion like their marijuana tree, with simple parameterisation like wind, age, branching, which would i think translate quite sensibly to performance instrumentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhdPZ-iz-s8
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

User avatar
DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
4387 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Post Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:06 am

There are infinitely many ways of how you can produce sounds, you can also make music out of everything. It doesn't really matter for mass audience.

However, this week I came up with ingenious business model so I need to give it a try. :party:
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

Fender19
KVRian
556 posts since 30 Aug, 2012

Post Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:36 am

soundmodel wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:08 am
But this also sparked the thought that "does this mean that everything doable has been done already"?
Well, that's what we thought some years ago - and then "Autotune" came out.

No, everything has not been done yet but what that next "thing" is is TBD. It is certainly time for some entirely new, novel effect. If you have an idea, let me know! :tu:

kartalex
KVRist
58 posts since 4 Aug, 2007

Post Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:38 pm

There are plenty of idea generation methods.

My favourite method is - to take the most unoptimized process and make it simple as "one knob" (I am writing small utilities for my workflow, scripts, midi plugins, not released yet). Maybe plugin for creating a chain of effects most usable in the workflow (I think that is how CLA Mixhub, or CLA Guitars, Vocals etc were created) It may be not universal, but.. It's unique.

Another method is make things better. For example - there is no comfortable voice tuning program still. For example, one tuning program - is limited to VST technology, navigating between tracks is time consuming, you can't edit different tracks simultaneously. Another one is better in this, but I find it's note recognition worse, than first. You can make something that takes best of two worlds.

And if you want to make completely unique thing - then you combine things, that never been combined before. Like... for example TransientSplitter+ Eq = SplitEq, made by Eventide recently, and promoted as "revolution in EQ". I agree, it's unique, and maybe revolutionary.
Last edited by kartalex on Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

kartalex
KVRist
58 posts since 4 Aug, 2007

Post Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:48 pm

Sometimes, to be a good programmer with good ideas, you need to be a User. And if you don't use a thing, or don't compose music, don't make records, then you can't find the niche in market.

I see: there's no comfortable voice tuning program. There's no pleasant distortion in the market (they want to sound like Marshall, they are close, but no.. still no). Maybe neural networks will do it.
There's no comfortable midi workflow for style making. There's Band in a Box. But how styles are made, only God knows.
Last edited by kartalex on Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kartalex
KVRist
58 posts since 4 Aug, 2007

Post Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:54 pm

The ideas are around us.

Take a look at what is in front of you right now. How you can use it in the workflow? Make associations

soundmodel
KVRian

Topic Starter

744 posts since 28 May, 2010 from Finland

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:35 am

Fender19 wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:36 am
soundmodel wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:08 am
But this also sparked the thought that "does this mean that everything doable has been done already"?
Well, that's what we thought some years ago - and then "Autotune" came out.

No, everything has not been done yet but what that next "thing" is is TBD. It is certainly time for some entirely new, novel effect. If you have an idea, let me know! :tu:
Good, but this is not the same issue. Autotune came, because there's FFT theory to explain the ideas of pitch shifting, transient modification, ...

My question revolves around the limits of signal processing and why it seems like plenty of what's been said mathematically has already been done in sound.

soundmodel
KVRian

Topic Starter

744 posts since 28 May, 2010 from Finland

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:41 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:06 am
There are infinitely many ways of how you can produce sounds, you can also make music out of everything.
There's a difference between how tools are used and what they're designed to be used for.

One could argue that a full DAW with plug-ins and all is surely more versatile than any single plug-in. But this is not a fair comparison, because a plug-in designer does not design "a full DAW with all the plug-ins". And no one single has truly designed the "combination" of DAW and plug-ins. Yet it's more versatile than the DAW or any of the plug-ins.

Sort of like how a programming language designer does not design all the ways the programming language is used. Yet he/she is in principle dictating what the language is about. So who determined "boundaries" really?

xoxos
Mr Entertainment
12372 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:55 am

"3d knots" (3d oscillators)
written by paul bourke

1992

http://paulbourke.net/geometry/knots/
knot6.gif
any time you want to stop thinking about freaking distortion and autotune

every time one of you talks about distortion, it makes one more time i don't use distortion :-x shut up about it so i can do it too because it isn't being done all the time. god my music sounds boring.
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you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

nanostream
KVRist
34 posts since 1 Jan, 2021

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:46 am

I hope that some kid* will find an unusual way to utilize some of those Apple Mx features — unified memory, integrated GPU cores, machine learning, various accelerators etc.

*It‘s probably madness for an established industry player to invest resources into a relative niche platform, but a nerd with a MacBook and without a customer base might discover something new.

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