You guys are FAR too concerned about technical excellence!!!

[munchkin]

People who wank on about sample rates and converters are wannabe engineers not musicians IMO. It's the difference between buying a car to drive and enjoy or strip down and rebuild. You can do both, I agree, but if you spend too much time on the technical aspect when do you get the time to drive it?

I suppose we'll get a mix of technical minds and creative minds at KVR considering it's not just mucisians but developers too. But I think the devs aren't the ones wanking on about technical data except in the dev forum. It's the wanna be so-called 'professionals' who like to get their dicks out and use their so-called 'technical knowledge' to dick-whip us and control the discussion.

This really is annoying at times when you wanna talk about music and creativity concerning a synth and then some twat comes along and tries to shift the discussion to one about numbers and statistics.

No forum's ever perfect, I know, but this has started to happen a lot more at KVR IMO. It results in dreary threads that are better reserved for engineering.com. I'm not against learning new knowledge at all but the way some of it is presented seems either redundant or just plain elitist. It's not inclusive but meant to be exclusive and that is the worst kind of snobbery.

The proof in the pudding is when I play music by musicians here who don't spend hours debating nyquist values. The music they make is interesting and innovative usually. Then I play the music made by those twats who like to lord it over us with their technical knowledge and it sounds like elevator music from the 80's.

I'm generalising here because that's not always the case but I find that the technically proficient professional musicians who make great music don't need to wank on about how 'professional' they are.

But what do I care! I don't dwell on this issue.

[jinkster]

Ditto!

Reach for the stars & you just might hit the tops of the trees! Tricia show circa 2001!

[Scot Solida]

The Ramones and the Sex Pistols didn't have to pay attention to details. The labels that payed for their records hired top gun producers and engineers such as Craig Leon and Chris Thomas to pay attention to the details for them. Most of us do not have the luxury of such expert producers and engineers, so we must make do for ourselves. A recording is like any other work of art. It can be rough or refined. The song will determine which approach is best. As an illustrator, I never stopped refining my skills with a pen or a paintbrush, never stopped appreciating the subtleties of light and color. I take the same approach with recording. I find it odd that music seems to be the one artform that engenders a sense of pride in some over a lack of skill and knowledge. Some of that skill is in knowing when to niggle away over some recording technique or step back and let the song go out "raw". A good musician, engineer or producer knows which approach will work for the tune at hand, and applies it. A "crappy" sound like a cheap mic can be used to great effect when a high end mic won't get the same emotion across. Personally, I prefer to get the sound I hear in my mind into my ears as accurately as possible. Sometimes that requires high-end gear and incessant tweaking, sometimes it requires a rough-and-ready approach.

[munchkin]

Details are extremely important. Technical excellence is extremely important. If you don't think punk rockers like Sex Pistols and Ramones pay attention to detail, think again. And do NOT for a SECOND suggest that the crap you is anywhere near those classic artists. People who whine that other people pay too much attention to detail do it because they're jealous.

Seriously, who ever started this thread is 1) jealous that other people have better gear. Ok so i have gear for 70 000 or so, if you're not happy about that, go eat yourself. 2) jealous that other people know more about music. I know pretty much everything. Listen to the different genres i've posted and you'll know that's true 3) jealous that people can PLAY music. I can play better than you, trust me.


/Jonas

FIGHT!


Oh get over yourself. You are exactly the kind of person I'm talking about. Like punk started because they wanted to play well. You are so out of touch it's unreal. How old are you? I actually was a punk and the technically proficient ethos you prattle on about was never in the equation.

I'm sure you'd love to impose your revisionist nonsense upon the history of punk but sad luck for you. Have you seen the making of 'Nevermind...'? You wouldn't even know what it means to 'mean it maaan' because you think music is about twiddling faders on digital desks or the placement of £2000 microphones. You want to turn the Pistols into the Eagles but it won't wash.

You are everything that is wrong with music right now. You have no soul and no heart. You are a technician not a musician. And you think you can come here and lecture us and try to belittle us with your elitist insults. Well you've met your match matey.

[Caleb]

I find it odd that music seems to be the one artform that engenders a sense of pride in some over a lack of skill and knowledge.

Actually I think the same can apply for everything and different art forms as well.

People take pride in what they achieve with no training whatsoever.

Isn't that a common boast.

"Look at this! And I've had absolutely no training!"

I use a similar taunt from a different angle against developers at work sometimes. The old "You should be telling me this. I'm not trained as a developer - you are".



Caleb

[vtx]

Technical excellence is extremely important. If you don't think punk rockers like Sex Pistols and Ramones pay attention to detail, think again

/Jonas

I'll have to pull out ,Who Killed Bambi,,again then,I may have missed something...

[SQ4]

I spend hours on a beat only to find I don't have a tune, the life cycle of a track chéz moi....


Marco

you can extrapolate that easily to life itself, it's very funny

[Cabinfever]

I know pretty much everything. Listen to the different genres i've posted and you'll know that's true

this post must be a joke. no one could seriously say that they "know pretty much everything"

what a dumb ass

[Glassback]

Yowza! Some great points made on this page - Scott, munchkin et al.

munchkin from your first post on this page, I see where you're coming from now.


But Jonas man -- whoooo.
Up yerself doesn't even come into it!
Is this the same Jonas from before by any chance?
Same name, same pig-headedness.
I mean - one thing to blow your own trumpet, but maaan:

[jinkster]

I seem to recall the Flying Lizards(late seventies) getting a top 10 UK hit(or was it number one??)
with Money (That's what I want)
a Beatles cover,which was recorded on a 4 track in a bathroom!?
While im at it, Some justice 12" (top 10, Uk late 90's) was produced on a basic amiga computer,with an 8 track sampler!

[munchkin]

Music is about expression. That doesn't have to come through technical virtuosity. In fact technique can get in the way of creativity. A good example of the rejection of technique besides punk can be found in modernist composers who went on a journey to find new forms of musical expression and rejected the old methodologies in the process. It meant that the synth was incorporated into music and many of the genres of music we now take for granted came out of this experimentation and the rejection of technique.

Where would sampling be if not for musique concrete for example? Experimentation is the lifeblood of music and if you know where you're going before you get there then where is the spontaneity? What's the point of experimentation unless you try things that have never been attempted before? You can have all the technical knowledge in the world but that doesn't guarentee creativity. It can actually put a block on creativity.

I know that not everyone wants to experiment - they want to create a particular genre of music. But genres develop because musicians attempt new things. Think of how house music developed using the TB303. It was used in a way Roland and music producers/engineers would never have dreamed of by young black&gay musicians who were just starting to make music for Chicago's gay clubs.

There are so many examples from The Beatles to the Sex Pistols of enthusiasm and creativity leading over technical expertise that it's almost redundant having this debate.

[ouroboros]

I could never be your woman

[munchkin]

I could never be your woman

Tammy Wynette, 1974?

[jinkster]

I could never be your woman

But could you be mine?

[ouroboros]

I could never be your woman

But could you be mine?

Well I guess what you say is true,