Thunderbolt 4 on Windows and outdated MOTU

[Astralv]

Hey there. I am building new Windows 11 based system with Adler Lake I9 12th generation CPU. I currently have Kaby Lake based system with Thunderbolt 3. I use MOTU Thunderbolt Audio interface. It requires Thunderbolt 2 to 3 adopter. They did not release new interfaces in years. I have 3 Motu units, spent $5000 on them, I need to be able to use them on the new system.

I am planning to use Asus motherboard with Thunderbolt. It gets complicated because Thunderbolt is connected to Display Port for video input, and I was told that without DP, Thunderbolt will only be DATA port. I am looking at 2 motherboards:
1. Proart Creators https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Co ... ATOR-WIFI/
2. Asus Rog Hero https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-maximus ... 6813119504

These 2 boards offer Thunderbolt. However, Proart offers Display Port Input (not Output but Input), and Hero does not. I need to know what board would allow me to use my MOTU interfaces.

I had this discussion on Tom's Hardware about video, I am not fully understand it, please, see for yourself. I plan to use this computer for Audio and Video editing, I will have dedicated NVidia 3070 graphic card. I need to connect my Thiunderbolt 2 *adopter to 3) Audio interfaces.
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads ... t-22534642

Thank you.

[BertKoor]

A quick google suggests your current ThunderBolt 2>3 adapter should work fine when plugged into a ThunderBolt 4 port. But no one can guarantee this.

[Pictus]

Both very good motherboards, buy what is cheaper or available.

Forget about DisplayPort through Thunderbolt, I see no advantage for PC users.
It is there as an optional feature, not good even if you have an Apple monitor
because it needs a software to control and it is OSX only, not Windows...

You have to ask MOTU support if it will work with TB(Thunderbolt)4 +
adapter, but the TB adapter(TB3 to TB2) may not work for TB4, look
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/a ... ws-Systems
IF does not work, an alternative is a Ryzen PC, but the ones with TB3.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/vFhmP6 ... ming-wi-fi
or
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/zfMTwP ... aming-wifi
+
ASUS ThunderboltEX 3-TR
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Compo ... LTEX-3-TR/
https://www.ebay.com/p/26039748780

or

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/cL3mP6 ... rus-pro-v2
or
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/XWBG3C ... rus-master
But you have to ask Gigabyte support if the X570S AORUS MASTER is
compatible with GC-TITAN RIDGE 2.0
+
GIGABYTE GC-TITAN RIDGE 2.0
https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard ... -rev-20#kf
https://www.ebay.com/p/28040669367

I already made a Ryzen PC you can use as a starting guide.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/pjbvLP
The extra 140mm fan is to place in the case front.
You will need to add a GPU and the compatible TB card
https://www.ebay.com/p/28040669367

[jdnz]

You have to ask MOTU support if it will work with TB(Thunderbolt)4, because
the TB adapter(TB3 to TB2) may not work for TB4, look
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/a ... ws-Systems
IF does not work, an alternative is a Ryzen PC, but the ones with TB3.

Or just add a dedicated tb3 or tb2 pcie card - since the motu is only tb2 there’s little point tying up a tb4 port when the motu is only going to be using a tiny bit of the bandwidth available on tb4

[Pictus]

Or just add a dedicated tb3 or tb2 pcie card - since the motu is only tb2 there’s little point tying up a tb4 port when the motu is only going to be using a tiny bit of the bandwidth available on tb4

There is no TB3 or TB2 PCIe card compatible with ANY Z690 motherboard.
TB2 PCIe cards are very old and not compatible with ANY modern Intel/AMD motherboard.

[Astralv]

I spoke with MOTU guy and was told that TB4 is working with TB 2 to 3 adopter. He could not understand anything I was saying about Display Port and video v/ data.

Pictus, thanks for the suggestions. I build this computer mostly for video editing, my audio workstation Kaby build is like new- I spent 2 years just to install all music plugins and contact libraries I have, so I am not planning to change it, but I would like to tigh new computer in to the system. Wondering if there Thunderbolt splitter that can be connected to 2 different computers so that my audio interfaces can connect to both computers. Right now I have all parts except MoBo and Memory. I did read about missing chip and delay with DDR5 memory but I think I will just wait for it- dont feel like using DDR4. My Preorder emailed me this morning to tell me that my ProArt MoBo is STILL not available. So nice of them to let me know. Also NewEgg just added it to their page at $700 (some 3rd party). Originally $475. So I am wondering if I just should go ahead and buy Hero at $600 if you say that there is no advantage from DP to TB connection. Hero has TB. Thank you.

[Pictus]

I am glad to help, but there is no TB splitter.
I never used, but looks interesting https://audiogridder.com/

[Astralv]

I am glad to help, but there is no TB splitter.
I never used, but looks interesting <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://audiogridder.com</span>/

This bag be useful in some circumstances. Interesting. But I was thinking about some kind of dock. There many docks to connect multiple devices to one computer, but I need to connect 1 device to 2 computers.

I went on and ordered Hero. Now I only miss DDR5.

[e.no]

I spoke with MOTU guy and was told that TB4 is working with TB 2 to 3 adopter. He could not understand anything I was saying about Display Port and video v/ data.

Just chiming in here, as I am in the same position - bought a computer with a Z690 mainboard and an add-on card for Thunderbolt 4 (there are not 2/3 cards available for these boards), already had my Thunderbolt-3-to-2 adapter from Apple for my former Thunderbolt 2 laptop, but sadly the interface is not being recognised. I've read that Intel officially does not support Thunderbolt 3 and below anymore since their 10th generation CPUs. Were you able to get your MOTU interface up and running through Thunderbolt?

[Astralv]

Hello, friends!

I have new build with I9 13900K Processor and Asus Hero Motherboard. The MB has 2 built in Thunderbolt 4 ports. ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG USA (asus.com)

I have project recording studio and use MOTU Thunderbolt audio interface. MOTU.com - Overview

It is relatively expansive gear around $1500 per unit and I have 3 units, so it is not easy to replace. The interface is using Thunderbolt 2.0. My previous build Kaby Lake, 2017, I also had Asus Hero motherboard with Thunderbolt 3.0 and was using Apple TB 3.2 to 2.0 adopter.

From my research, TB 4.0 should be back compatible with TB 3.0, therefor, in theory, my interfaces should simply connect to the new system with the same Apple adopter. But they not recognized.

I contacted MOTU. You would think- by now, they would know if their flagship product is compatible with TB4 and would know how to troubleshoot it as they still offering this interface. This is reply I got from their tech support:

Thanks for contacting MOTU. In order for this to work, we first have to check if the Thunderbolt 4 port actually works in your computer. Since your computer is a custom-built one, we might have to make sure that a number of things are true in your computer:

- Is every component of your recently built computer compatible with TB 4? This is needed for TB 4 to work.

- Are all the TB-related software installed and updated for your Intel processor?

- Is the motherboard confirmed to provide backwards compatibility between TB 3 and TB 4? Some motherboards have been found to skip the backwards compatibility feature.

When all of these are true, It would also be good to have another TB4 device to test the configuration before plugging in the interfaces.

1. Not sure what components of computer would not be compatible. The processor? Obviously the memory would not care. Yes, I gave them specs- I have I9 13900K, it supports TB.

2. I just reinstalled the TB driver just in case I didn't install it with all the drivers earlier, so it is installed.

3. How would I check if Hero MB provides back compatibility?

This article is mentioning workaround using Doc to power devices, but I am not fully understanding what I supposed to do.

Quantum: Thunderbolt 4 Crashing Issues with Windows Systems – Knowledge Base | PreSonus

To make Thunderbolt 2 interfaces work with Thunderbolt 4, one must use a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter. We recommend the following.

Startech TBT3TBTADAP - Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter
Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter (not compatible with Dell products)
Akitio Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter
Thunderbolt 4 does not provide power over the TB4 (USB Type-C) connector to Thunderbolt 2 accessories / devices directly. We found that an externally powered Thunderbolt 3 or Thunderbolt 4 Dock must be used in addition to the adapter on an available Thunderbolt port on the dock to provide power to the accessory. Combined with a working Thunderbolt system driver only then will the connection work.

In our tests we used the following externally powered devices with the TB3 / TB2 Adapter on the downstream port:

Cal Digit Thunderbolt 4 Hub
Dell K16A Dock
Lacie D2 HDD with 2x TB3 Ports.
I have Apple adopter. My Thunderbolt MOTU Device powers itself, are they talking about power to port itself? Any thoughts to make it work would be greatly appreciated- you may help a lot of people who have the same problem. Thank you.

[Dikkop]

The Asus ThunderboltEX4 card is from 2021: "The ThunderboltEX 4 card is backwards compatible with previous Thunderbolt technology". So I assume your Hero MB provides backwards compatibility as well.
The Startech TBT3TBTADAP however: "This adapter is not compatible with Mini DisplayPort / DisplayPort monitors or Thunderbolt 4 computers".
It's all a bit confusing I think.
I made an inquiry at Startech if above mentioned parts could work with a Motu 828ES (Win10 x64). No reply till now.

[Astralv]

The frustrating part is that MOTU 1248 is still their flagship product, it states that it is world first Thunderbolt USB audio interface, https://motu.com/products/avb/1248 They have only so many products, and when you contact them, they have no idea if it works with TB 4. Isnt it their job to test it even before these computers released? I contacted them before I built this system and was told that it should work. If it does not, then make announcement or make it work. I dont get how their flagship product has no support for latest technology. I also looked at Steinberg and their Thunderbolt audio interface. Their website even more outdated, they trying to make it work with TB 3, no mentioning about TB 4.

[e.no]

The Startech TBT3TBTADAP however: "This adapter is not compatible with Mini DisplayPort / DisplayPort monitors or Thunderbolt 4 computers".

I have an Apple adapter, as previously stated, that gets ignored entirely by the Thunderbolt card, but someone on Reddit recommended the Startech adapter which works fine for him. If you order with a place that lets you safely return the item, just try it out and send it back in case it doesn't work?

[Dikkop]

I got a reply form Startech.
"Helaas is onze TBT3TBTADAP niet compatibel met Thunderbolt 4-systemen en wordt niet verwacht dat deze hiermee werkt, en we hebben ook geen adapter die in deze configuratie wordt ondersteund. Dat spijt me vreselijk."

In English: "The TBT3TBTADAP is not compatible with Thunderbolt 4 systems unfortunately and there is no expectation that it could work. Also we don't have a adapter for this configuration. We are very sorry."

In the mean time I'm doing some research if the following options could work:
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo ... rview.html
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/solo ... -card.html
https://www.rme-audio.de/digiface-avb.html

[Dikkop]

The two Sonnettech products mentioned in my previous post won't work. They are not AVG compatible with Windows PC's. That's MAC exclusive, as always,