Reason 12 update out (12.2.2)

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
matrixo9
KVRist
135 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm

They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
Like £199 for the rack and £199 for the daw
They need a good sampler ( I don't have 12 I have ten ) but I mean a sampler that good third party companies can make instruments for like a kontakt thing and have a free player version that comes
With the sampler and some free packs but u have to upgrade to get the licenced packs ,also promote the shop and the add on racks , there missing a trick there , then they can make upgrade prices on the two different , also I don't know how you get permanent users with subs people still want to own things and don't always want the latest version

If they separated like this they could update the daw every couple years with cheap upgrades while still concentrating on the rack vst as the main source of income and you could have a cheaper upgrade for example if you only wanna upgrade just the daw or the rack aswell ,
I hate subscription models I like to own things
I have ten and I signed up for reason plus three months offer for a dollar and I don't use it because one I feel like I don't own in and two I don't wann sign in every time
Weird I know but that's me
That's what I would do if I owned reason studios
I would also change the name to
propellerhead pro for the daw
And reason rack vst for the rack
Sell me the company for a pound then I'll help you out reason studios lol

And the sub thing just keep it
For an instrument and sound pack club
Where you get extra stuff every month for a 5 euro or 5 dollar fee

But reason isn't included in that

matrixo9
KVRist
135 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:27 pm

By the way how do other companies that offer subs compare ie Pro tools and studio one
Cubase and Ableton ain't jumping on this bandwagon yet are they

flori89
KVRist
195 posts since 19 Aug, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:22 am

matrixo9 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm
They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
Like £199 for the rack and £199 for the daw
They need a good sampler ( I don't have 12 I have ten ) but I mean a sampler that good third party companies can make instruments for like a kontakt thing and have a free player version that comes
With the sampler and some free packs but u have to upgrade to get the licenced packs ,also promote the shop and the add on racks , there missing a trick there , then they can make upgrade prices on the two different , also I don't know how you get permanent users with subs people still want to own things and don't always want the latest version

If they separated like this they could update the daw every couple years with cheap upgrades while still concentrating on the rack vst as the main source of income and you could have a cheaper upgrade for example if you only wanna upgrade just the daw or the rack aswell ,
I hate subscription models I like to own things
I have ten and I signed up for reason plus three months offer for a dollar and I don't use it because one I feel like I don't own in and two I don't wann sign in every time
Weird I know but that's me
That's what I would do if I owned reason studios
I would also change the name to
propellerhead pro for the daw
And reason rack vst for the rack
Sell me the company for a pound then I'll help you out reason studios lol

And the sub thing just keep it
For an instrument and sound pack club
Where you get extra stuff every month for a 5 euro or 5 dollar fee

But reason isn't included in that
Yea, I would probably spend money to get the rack with plugins. The DAW seems O.K but it didn't click with me and S1 is just lightyears ahead of it.

matrixo9
KVRist
135 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:52 am

flori89 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:22 am
matrixo9 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm
They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
Like £199 for the rack and £199 for the daw
They need a good sampler ( I don't have 12 I have ten ) but I mean a sampler that good third party companies can make instruments for like a kontakt thing and have a free player version that comes
With the sampler and some free packs but u have to upgrade to get the licenced packs ,also promote the shop and the add on racks , there missing a trick there , then they can make upgrade prices on the two different , also I don't know how you get permanent users with subs people still want to own things and don't always want the latest version

If they separated like this they could update the daw every couple years with cheap upgrades while still concentrating on the rack vst as the main source of income and you could have a cheaper upgrade for example if you only wanna upgrade just the daw or the rack aswell ,
I hate subscription models I like to own things
I have ten and I signed up for reason plus three months offer for a dollar and I don't use it because one I feel like I don't own in and two I don't wann sign in every time
Weird I know but that's me
That's what I would do if I owned reason studios
I would also change the name to
propellerhead pro for the daw
And reason rack vst for the rack
Sell me the company for a pound then I'll help you out reason studios lol

And the sub thing just keep it
For an instrument and sound pack club
Where you get extra stuff every month for a 5 euro or 5 dollar fee

But reason isn't included in that
Yea, I would probably spend money to get the rack with plugins. The DAW seems O.K but it didn't click with me and S1 is just lightyears ahead of it.
The daws fine man and has recycle elements
And melodyne style editing built in
So is probably more powerful than u think
Just things like freeze folders and simple stuff should have been done by now
Although it has bounce in place
But yeah make that option for people that don't want the daw then just update the daw with Daw improvements every now and then charge a smaller upgrade . I think they should separate the products myself like I don't need the vst
And a lot of people don't need the daw

flori89
KVRist
195 posts since 19 Aug, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:57 am

matrixo9 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:52 am
flori89 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:22 am
matrixo9 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm
They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
Like £199 for the rack and £199 for the daw
They need a good sampler ( I don't have 12 I have ten ) but I mean a sampler that good third party companies can make instruments for like a kontakt thing and have a free player version that comes
With the sampler and some free packs but u have to upgrade to get the licenced packs ,also promote the shop and the add on racks , there missing a trick there , then they can make upgrade prices on the two different , also I don't know how you get permanent users with subs people still want to own things and don't always want the latest version

If they separated like this they could update the daw every couple years with cheap upgrades while still concentrating on the rack vst as the main source of income and you could have a cheaper upgrade for example if you only wanna upgrade just the daw or the rack aswell ,
I hate subscription models I like to own things
I have ten and I signed up for reason plus three months offer for a dollar and I don't use it because one I feel like I don't own in and two I don't wann sign in every time
Weird I know but that's me
That's what I would do if I owned reason studios
I would also change the name to
propellerhead pro for the daw
And reason rack vst for the rack
Sell me the company for a pound then I'll help you out reason studios lol

And the sub thing just keep it
For an instrument and sound pack club
Where you get extra stuff every month for a 5 euro or 5 dollar fee

But reason isn't included in that
Yea, I would probably spend money to get the rack with plugins. The DAW seems O.K but it didn't click with me and S1 is just lightyears ahead of it.
The daws fine man and has recycle elements
And melodyne style editing built in
So is probably more powerful than u think
Just things like freeze folders and simple stuff should have been done by now
Although it has bounce in place
But yeah make that option for people that don't want the daw then just update the daw with Daw improvements every now and then charge a smaller upgrade . I think they should separate the products myself like I don't need the vst
And a lot of people don't need the daw
I tried it for 3 months, and honestly it mostly got into my way. It might as well be quite good, but I don't need "Melodyne style editing" when I can just use Melodyne. I don't have anything bad to say about the DAW either, it's just that I don't need it and they seem to neglect it.

jens
KVRAF
21414 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:36 am

matrixo9 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm
They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
As has been mentioned before, the rack is an integral part of the DAW - it is the way Reason plugs in plugins and also the place to do all routings.

The Rack as a plugin is like a parody of itself in the DAW - it's a rather nonsensical product for the most part of it - due to the lack of inter-track connectivity and so forth.

(Keep in mind that NI Reaktor is 199€ (and can be had for 99€ right now).)


Can't see how they're going to survive for much longer. As I see it they're already smelling funny... :shrug:

jens
KVRAF
21414 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:44 am

flori89 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:57 am
I don't need "Melodyne style editing" when I can just use Melodyne.
You can't really compare these two, so it appears you didn't really look very closely during these 3 months ;-)

While being only monophonic, Reason's pitch editor is deeply integrated into the DAW itself (and extremely comfortable to use in and of itself too) - much deeper than even ARA 2 makes possible.

I am intimately familiar with both, so I feel competent to say that it seems you can't possibly be in any way, else you wouldn't have said that. :razz:

jens
KVRAF
21414 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:51 am

And that's what much of that boils down to:

a DAW is a sum of functions that can be much bigger than its individual parts and this is certainly the case with Reason.

To suggest taking one deeply integrated bit out of it and using it in another application is as absurd as suggesting to replace one deeply integrated bit and replacing it by another similar bit that isn't nearly as intergrated.


- which is why the Props really seem to be running about with a severed head right now.

flori89
KVRist
195 posts since 19 Aug, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:29 am

jens wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:44 am
flori89 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:57 am
I don't need "Melodyne style editing" when I can just use Melodyne.
You can't really compare these two, so it appears you didn't really look very closely during these 3 months ;-)

While being only monophonic, Reason's pitch editor is deeply integrated into the DAW itself (and extremely comfortable to use in and of itself too) - much deeper than even ARA 2 makes possible.

I am intimately familiar with both, so I feel competent to say that it seems you can't possibly be in any way, else you wouldn't have said that. :razz:
Doesn't really matter, how good it is, there is going to be a reason why Melodyne is the industry standard for pitch correction and not Reason. Besides I don't need this feature for my style of music, so it's not a pro for me anyway.

A bunch of other things that S1 can do and the Reason DAW can't are pretty useful to me though. Some of them pretty basic, like a properly working search function.

Think about it like this, when I tried out both DAWs with Reason I was constantly like "I wish it could do XY" and then I search and find that feature XY was requested and hinted at years ago and never delivered.

For Studio One, I google for the feature, find a Video by Gregor that it can do exactly that, but not only that, it goes way deeper then I thought and I see a bunch of other things that will be pretty useful in my workflow.

If Reason does everything you want from it, I'm not going to argue. You know what you need, but for me the experience with the DAW was extremely lackluster. What I liked (and seems like I'm not alone in this) is their collection of instruments and effects.

Edit: Also sure, I didn't do a deep dive into this DAW. I compared Ableton, FL, S1, Reason to find the best DAW for me personally. The only two that worked for me were Ableton and S1, with S1 coming out on top by a slight margin.
Last edited by flori89 on Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
4784 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:30 am

The moment when established developers will release stuf for VCV rack I think it will be game over for the prop's rack
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

SLiC
KVRAF

Topic Starter

8377 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:21 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:30 am
The moment when established developers will release stuf for VCV rack I think it will be game over for the prop's rack
I'm not so sure...Love VCV Rack (and Voltage Modular) but they are different paradigms really. I'm not so sure many established developers will jump on VCV now that were not there before, its a pretty 'open source' led community...

Reason is more like a hardware racks rather than at a module/Eurorack level...Also which ever way you look at it you can get really good value with Reason 'if' you get it on one of their many 50% off sales...
PC + S49 MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, Pro 3, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals

matrixo9
KVRist
135 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:28 am

...

matrixo9
KVRist
135 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:34 am

jens wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:36 am
matrixo9 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm
They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
As has been mentioned before, the rack is an integral part of the DAW - it is the way Reason plugs in plugins and also the place to do all routings.

The Rack as a plugin is like a parody of itself in the DAW - it's a rather nonsensical product for the most part of it - due to the lack of inter-track connectivity and so forth.

(Keep in mind that NI Reaktor is 199€ (and can be had for 99€ right now).)


Can't see how they're going to survive for much longer. As I see it they're already smelling funny... :shrug:
This is what I'm saying they should have separated it
Made a good sampler gave away a player version
Got a couple got providers to make a couple of decent packs ( not rack extensions )
Like refills with faceplates like the new combinator can provide like a few good cinematic library's in conjunction with spitfire or orchestral tools or something
They need not just more synths in there

matrixo9
KVRist
135 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:38 am

jens wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:51 am
And that's what much of that boils down to:

a DAW is a sum of functions that can be much bigger than its individual parts and this is certainly the case with Reason.

To suggest taking one deeply integrated bit out of it and using it in another application is as absurd as suggesting to replace one deeply integrated bit and replacing it by another similar bit that isn't nearly as intergrated.


- which is why the Props really seem to be running about with a severed head right now.
The thing is though reason started this way
As an instrument kinda thing and not a daw
It doesn't matter in its part of the program
Cut it out make it seperate with different goodies
And the also keep the daw for die hards and let them by add on packs
And just update it when it needs , a few little brush ups every now and then would be fine
It's already a sound program I just think it needs to look more modern here and there like they did with the groove mixer , keep a dark mode as standard as the basic white mode is ugly as hell and that's the first thing people see

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antic604
KVRAF
11206 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:18 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:30 am
The moment when established developers will release stuf for VCV rack I think it will be game over for the prop's rack
How is VCV Rack an alternative to Reason (and vice versa)?
Just because both have dangling cables?

:o :roll:

And also I'm not sure how much more "established" can it get for VCV than having Mutable Instruments, Befaco, Vult or Instruo devs on board?
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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