Reason 12 update out (12.2.2)

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antic604
KVRAF
11192 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:28 am

matrixo9 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:38 am
And the also keep the daw for die hards and let them by add on packs
And just update it when it needs , a few little brush ups every now and then would be fine
It's already a sound program I just think it needs to look more modern here and there like they did with the groove mixer , keep a dark mode as standard as the basic white mode is ugly as hell and that's the first thing people see
You seem to have no clue. I Rack users care more about packs, because they don't buy Reason - they buy rack full of devices. The DAW side required several QoL updates 5+ years ago, not "now and then". Groove mixer rework sticks out like a sore thumb in the otherwise skeuomorphic GUI. White mode isn't "ugly", it's actually the most consistent. And also you can swap it to blue or black and have it be your default.
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

matrixo9
KVRist
130 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:40 am

antic604 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:28 am
matrixo9 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:38 am
And the also keep the daw for die hards and let them by add on packs
And just update it when it needs , a few little brush ups every now and then would be fine
It's already a sound program I just think it needs to look more modern here and there like they did with the groove mixer , keep a dark mode as standard as the basic white mode is ugly as hell and that's the first thing people see
You seem to have no clue. I Rack users care more about packs, because they don't buy Reason - they buy rack full of devices. The DAW side required several QoL updates 5+ years ago, not "now and then". Groove mixer rework sticks out like a sore thumb in the otherwise skeuomorphic GUI. White mode isn't "ugly", it's actually the most consistent. And also you can swap it to blue or black and have it be your default.
That's just your opinion
And that's what I meant rack users
Give them a rack with third party instruments
Give the daw users updates with option for more instruments
And I think a lot of people don't agree I'm saying make the daw look more like the groove mixer
I hate the white look it looks dated as hell
I can't believe some wanted to keep the old groove mixer look it comes from.the dark ages

machine_spirit
KVRist
96 posts since 10 Aug, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:48 am

matrixo9 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm
They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
IMO, when you buy Reason today you're paying for the rack plugin. The DAW is just a bonus. Selling them separately would put them in a position where they have to lower the price of the rack plugin while also putting pressure on them to develop the DAW.
jens wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:36 am
As I see it they're already smelling funny...
The move to subscription was way too greedy, i don't think they have the leverage for this to work. It's certainly where they lost me. I bought a DAW + rack plugin, and now they want me to rent the rack plugin + a DAW that is frozen in time? I don't think even Ableton could get away with an aggressive subscription system like this.

matrixo9
KVRist
130 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:26 am

machine_spirit wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:48 am
matrixo9 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm
They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
IMO, when you buy Reason today you're paying for the rack plugin. The DAW is just a bonus. Selling them separately would put them in a position where they have to lower the price of the rack plugin while also putting pressure on them to develop the DAW.
jens wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:36 am
As I see it they're already smelling funny...
The move to subscription was way too greedy, i don't think they have the leverage for this to work. It's certainly where they lost me. I bought a DAW + rack plugin, and now they want me to rent the rack plugin + a DAW that is frozen in time? I don't think even Ableton could get away with an aggressive subscription system like this.
This is just it
They could get on with updating the rack more regurly
And update the daw with a new version as every two years that way keep the instrument rack as the main selling point and update the daw slowly which Is what there trying to do now
But listen again that's just your opinion because many users like me don't care a monkeys about the rack because I use reason exclusively
As do a lot of people still
Ableton is cool and fresh looking
Reason looks a bit dated but the rack is strong that's the only difference in my opinion
Ableton isn't a better daw than reason
Cubase and logic probably are but then there are a lot of features that not all people will use .

matrixo9
KVRist
130 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:28 am

The move to subscription was rushed I feel
That's the problem when a company takes over that wants a quick turnaround
The problem is that they will probably dump reason after a while
Hopefully someone good comes in
It's like having a chairman of your football team who's spending not enough money on players while just makin profit margins

Let bandlab buy them out least a company like that cares and updates very regularly lol

The old owner and co creator cared about his creation
To the new guys it's a product I mean
What was wrong with the name
Propellerhead Studios
Reason Studios is so basic
And so is the new logo
No clue
Last few years from them have been rushed
There like a government who doesn't care about its people starving they just wanna get money

Samiver
KVRist
44 posts since 11 May, 2020

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:51 am

matrixo9 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:26 am
machine_spirit wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:48 am
matrixo9 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm
They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
IMO, when you buy Reason today you're paying for the rack plugin. The DAW is just a bonus. Selling them separately would put them in a position where they have to lower the price of the rack plugin while also putting pressure on them to develop the DAW.
jens wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:36 am
As I see it they're already smelling funny...
The move to subscription was way too greedy, i don't think they have the leverage for this to work. It's certainly where they lost me. I bought a DAW + rack plugin, and now they want me to rent the rack plugin + a DAW that is frozen in time? I don't think even Ableton could get away with an aggressive subscription system like this.
This is just it
They could get on with updating the rack more regurly
And update the daw with a new version as every two years that way keep the instrument rack as the main selling point and update the daw slowly which Is what there trying to do now
But listen again that's just your opinion because many users like me don't care a monkeys about the rack because I use reason exclusively
As do a lot of people still
Ableton is cool and fresh looking
Reason looks a bit dated but the rack is strong that's the only difference in my opinion
Ableton isn't a better daw than reason
Cubase and logic probably are but then there are a lot of features that not all people will use .
I would be interested to know what else people would want in the rack to continually update it? Perhaps allow it to host vst and better integration with other daws. Personally I see them now having to keep on working on new rack extensions and players to appease the subscribers. I still think they need to keep improving the DAW as I would guess daw users outweigh those that just use the rrp and form a large part of their revenue regardless of if they own reason or rent it with r+ but they now have different groups of users they need to try and keep happy. As for reason being better than ableton that is a very subjective comment and not sure I agree with it but they both have strengths and weaknesses( and reason looks cooler than ableton to me, even if sometimes the transport buttons disappear lol). Each to their own I guess.

matrixo9
KVRist
130 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:59 am

Samiver wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:51 am
matrixo9 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:26 am
machine_spirit wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:48 am
matrixo9 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm
They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
IMO, when you buy Reason today you're paying for the rack plugin. The DAW is just a bonus. Selling them separately would put them in a position where they have to lower the price of the rack plugin while also putting pressure on them to develop the DAW.
jens wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:36 am
As I see it they're already smelling funny...
The move to subscription was way too greedy, i don't think they have the leverage for this to work. It's certainly where they lost me. I bought a DAW + rack plugin, and now they want me to rent the rack plugin + a DAW that is frozen in time? I don't think even Ableton could get away with an aggressive subscription system like this.
This is just it
They could get on with updating the rack more regurly
And update the daw with a new version as every two years that way keep the instrument rack as the main selling point and update the daw slowly which Is what there trying to do now
But listen again that's just your opinion because many users like me don't care a monkeys about the rack because I use reason exclusively
As do a lot of people still
Ableton is cool and fresh looking
Reason looks a bit dated but the rack is strong that's the only difference in my opinion
Ableton isn't a better daw than reason
Cubase and logic probably are but then there are a lot of features that not all people will use .
I would be interested to know what else people would want in the rack to continually update it? Perhaps allow it to host vst and better integration with other daws. Personally I see them now having to keep on working on new rack extensions and players to appease the subscribers. I still think they need to keep improving the DAW as I would guess daw users outweigh those that just use the rrp and form a large part of their revenue regardless of if they own reason or rent it with r+ but they now have different groups of users they need to try and keep happy. As for reason being better than ableton that is a very subjective comment and not sure I agree with it but they both have strengths and weaknesses( and reason looks cooler than ableton to me, even if sometimes the transport buttons disappear lol). Each to their own I guess.
Yeah sorry I didn't want to get into which daw is the best as that is totally subjective , Ableton Is my second fav and tbh I like the look of it move than Ableton but it's the rack and the mixer I love in reason and the soundpacks refills u can make , I guess most of that u can do in the rack vst but I don't like using installing too much programs tbh

matrixo9
KVRist
130 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:04 am

Samiver wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:51 am
matrixo9 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:26 am
machine_spirit wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:48 am
matrixo9 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:18 pm
They should just separate the daw and rack as different products and make them half cheaper
IMO, when you buy Reason today you're paying for the rack plugin. The DAW is just a bonus. Selling them separately would put them in a position where they have to lower the price of the rack plugin while also putting pressure on them to develop the DAW.
jens wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:36 am
As I see it they're already smelling funny...
The move to subscription was way too greedy, i don't think they have the leverage for this to work. It's certainly where they lost me. I bought a DAW + rack plugin, and now they want me to rent the rack plugin + a DAW that is frozen in time? I don't think even Ableton could get away with an aggressive subscription system like this.
This is just it
They could get on with updating the rack more regurly
And update the daw with a new version as every two years that way keep the instrument rack as the main selling point and update the daw slowly which Is what there trying to do now
But listen again that's just your opinion because many users like me don't care a monkeys about the rack because I use reason exclusively
As do a lot of people still
Ableton is cool and fresh looking
Reason looks a bit dated but the rack is strong that's the only difference in my opinion
Ableton isn't a better daw than reason
Cubase and logic probably are but then there are a lot of features that not all people will use .
I would be interested to know what else people would want in the rack to continually update it? Perhaps allow it to host vst and better integration with other daws. Personally I see them now having to keep on working on new rack extensions and players to appease the subscribers. I still think they need to keep improving the DAW as I would guess daw users outweigh those that just use the rrp and form a large part of their revenue regardless of if they own reason or rent it with r+ but they now have different groups of users they need to try and keep happy. As for reason being better than ableton that is a very subjective comment and not sure I agree with it but they both have strengths and weaknesses( and reason looks cooler than ableton to me, even if sometimes the transport buttons disappear lol). Each to their own I guess.
I think hosting vst
And new instruments
I really think it should be an instrument container
The problem is the rack extensions on their own are not beating kontakt
You need some better string library's and piano library's and organic things like spitfire or orchestral tools or native instruments if u wanna be a serious instrument container
The refills and rack extensions are ok and enough but serious producers are not gonna pick that over omnisphere or kontakt
Unless some serious library's emerge
The rack extensions are nice but there's only so many synthsnor sub par romplers u can have
They need to expand that world to make it compete
They need a big name on board
Not rack extensions because they tried with that and failed ( big names have left )
Something creators can port there kontakt libraries into maybe

matrixo9
KVRist
130 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:07 am

If I was reason studios
I woul be thinking of this instead of instruments like
Friktion which is an attempt to make up for there's not a good string libary in the rack
Stringwerks in the only decent ensemble
And that's not good enough
Where are all the serious cinematic libarys ?

Samiver
KVRist
44 posts since 11 May, 2020

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:05 pm

matrixo9 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:07 am
If I was reason studios
I woul be thinking of this instead of instruments like
Friktion which is an attempt to make up for there's not a good string libary in the rack
Stringwerks in the only decent ensemble
And that's not good enough
Where are all the serious cinematic libarys ?
I still think they should consider giving away an empty rack with the bare essentials to make it work (midi out etc). They then give users the opportunity to buy rs devices or other re developers rack extensions (as rs still get a small cut on sales). I really cannot see them being able to compete with kontakt and spitfire also give a few free vsts away. In my opinion they really need to make sure the core daw users are happy and that means workflow improvements for the daw to me. Getting new subscribers is great for them but these users are harder to keep thus why I think they need to improve the daw as well as adding new devices.

matrixo9
KVRist
130 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:57 pm

Samiver wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:05 pm
matrixo9 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:07 am
If I was reason studios
I woul be thinking of this instead of instruments like
Friktion which is an attempt to make up for there's not a good string libary in the rack
Stringwerks in the only decent ensemble
And that's not good enough
Where are all the serious cinematic libarys ?
I still think they should consider giving away an empty rack with the bare essentials to make it work (midi out etc). They then give users the opportunity to buy rs devices or other re developers rack extensions (as rs still get a small cut on sales). I really cannot see them being able to compete with kontakt and spitfire also give a few free vsts away. In my opinion they really need to make sure the core daw users are happy and that means workflow improvements for the daw to me. Getting new subscribers is great for them but these users are harder to keep thus why I think they need to improve the daw as well as adding new devices.
I agree about the free empty rack but
I think it should come.with just a sampler
They could use mimic or make a better one
Where libary makers soun designers can port there libarys they don't have to compete with those company's thy can do a deal for them to make a few libarys , people like luftrum etc other smaller companies who make great libraries could port there libraries put in a few free compressors eqs and effects would make it better than kontakt because in the rack u can connect connect all day long
They are missing a trick here
Stop concentrating on rack extensions make a sampler
That can hold world class sample libarys
And use rack extensions for synthesizers and effects etc

matrixo9
KVRist
130 posts since 22 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:12 pm

And yes improve the daw but you can take two years to make every version and make it awesome
Then they could pump out soundpacks and sample libarys or let other people do the work for them
While they concentrate on the daw

jens
KVRAF
21412 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:40 pm

machine_spirit wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:48 am
The DAW is just a bonus.
Nope, the DAW is the thing. frankly put: the Rack is just a silly toy full of things to play around with if you enjoy tinkering about rather than actually producing music (which is nothing wrong about at all of course - been there, done that).

That is the thing i keep going on about like a broken record: the good thing about Reason (the DAW) is that it help you to be productive - to get the song done.

The thing about Reason as a plugin is that it enables you to open a seperate window in the window, where you'd normally directly access the meat and potato of your plugin-stuff, in order to there load any number of plugins and to mess around with cables and combinators and what not for hours, in order to finally (perhaps) come up with something that would normally have taken you five minutes with a dedicated plugin which your host of choice shipped with... :-o :lol:

... which is why I keep saying that Reason as a plugin is sort of a parody of Reason the DAW.

Don't get me wrong: I think it's good that Reason the DAW comes with a number of nice plugins. But to use these plugins in another DAW via a singular, cut-out and lonely version of Reason the DAW's Rack is nigh pointless. So how many customers will the end up with, once they have driven away the last Reason the DAW user?

I know there's any number of tinkerers in the world, but for them there is also any number of other great toys out there...

mholloway
KVRAF
1891 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:51 pm

jens wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:40 pm


Nope, the DAW is the thing. frankly put: the Rack is just a silly toy full of things to play around with if you enjoy tinkering about rather than actually producing music.

FFS dude. :dog: It's a plugin instrument and plugin effect. It's as useful as anyone wants or needs it to be. Wanna use Kong in ableton? Done. Or ReDrum? Done. Or Thor? Done. Or Rv7000? Done. It's equivalent to loading in any number of plugins out there -- it's just that it's many of them. If it's a 'toy for playing around with and tinkering' than so is Zebra and Diva and Omnisphere and Kontakt. Give me a break.
https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp.com/ - Noir-themed Dark Jazz
https://tvhwy.bandcamp.com/releases - classic IDM by TV HWY
www.dwifh.com - old-school industrial music by DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER

jens
KVRAF
21412 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:02 pm

It's still a window in a window - which was obviously my point - it's a collection of plugins that forces you to load them in a window in a window, rather than loading them directly into whatever solution your DAW has for that function (which would be the Rack in the case of Reason the DAW).

And why would I use Kong in another DAW in that convoluted way? Or Redrum? Why shouldn't I simply use Heartbeat, Superior Drummer, Battery 4, yadda yadda instead? :shrug:

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