Anything to permute midi?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
fairlyclose
KVRAF
1969 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:48 pm

Studio One has a nice feature that permutes selected midi notes. Note this is NOT random midi, it is taking existing notes and swapping them around with each other.
Thats about all I need S1 for, so if there is a vst or little program I can drop a midi phrase into and it will permute that I can sell S1.
Any ideas for something ?

NOTE i have no interest in Loomer Architect nor any interest in random midi generators, just permutation of existing data

ShawnG
KVRian
987 posts since 27 Apr, 2005

Post Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:59 pm

Reason can do what I think you are describing. Not sure I would recommend Reason just for that though, but if you already have a copy, it’s the “alter notes” section of the breakout tools menu.

I think Air Transfuser can do something similar, but I don’t know if it has the flexibility you might need

fairlyclose
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1969 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:07 pm

:help:
ShawnG wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:59 pm
Reason can do what I think you are describing. Not sure I would recommend Reason just for that though, but if you already have a copy, it’s the “alter notes” section of the breakout tools menu.

I think Air Transfuser can do something similar, but I don’t know if it has the flexibility you might need
Thanks, i will look at AIR, yeah Reason is overkill. But, looks like mulab free has this function. Have to test it a bit more, but if Im in luck I will sell off S1 if it is saleable nowdays

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
6576 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:56 pm

Which DAW are you using? In Live or Bitwig you could create something like that… I could easily make a Max patch that would work standalone (or in M4L). On Mac it would be easy to route it to your DAW. On Win you need some extra routing tool I guess…

fairlyclose
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1969 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:43 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:56 pm
Which DAW are you using? In Live or Bitwig you could create something like that… I could easily make a Max patch that would work standalone (or in M4L). On Mac it would be easy to route it to your DAW. On Win you need some extra routing tool I guess…
I use Reaper and Bitwig and also Studio One(which I am selling because this function is really the only thing I use in S1 that I cant do in the others).
I wrote something in Matlab many years ago and have used that as an offline/non DAW tool. That is more powerful again as it allows me to map notes from one file to rhythms of another ie various forms of morphing songs together eg Bartok and Bach was one I did that turned out well. But not interactive within the DAW

Anyway thank you so much for your offer but it seems that free mulab will be enough and for more complex stuff I will crank open Octave and run my old Matlab scripts. Love to hear how you would go about it in Bitwig tho

gaf_thit
KVRian
743 posts since 28 Sep, 2012 from Norway

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:39 am

Autotonic may have some of what you need, there are some free/magware versions too.
https://www.autotonic.net/

Re-compose does something similar and was what I originally was thinking about, when I first read your post. Midi tweaker program:
https://www.re-compose.com/

User avatar
neverbeeninariot
KVRist
450 posts since 3 Feb, 2015 from UK

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:17 am

fairlyclose wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:48 pm
Studio One has a nice feature that permutes selected midi notes. Note this is NOT random midi, it is taking existing notes and swapping them around with each other.
Thats about all I need S1 for, so if there is a vst or little program I can drop a midi phrase into and it will permute that I can sell S1.
Any ideas for something ?

NOTE i have no interest in Loomer Architect nor any interest in random midi generators, just permutation of existing data
MIDI Ex Machina script in Reaper has a permute scale that does what you want, albeit in a slightly clunky manner (as many MXM things are... I am working on an update, honest...).

Not sure about Bitwig, you'd think there might be a note FX for that, but I can't confirm or deny...

fairlyclose
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1969 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:32 am

neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:17 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:48 pm
Studio One has a nice feature that permutes selected midi notes. Note this is NOT random midi, it is taking existing notes and swapping them around with each other.
Thats about all I need S1 for, so if there is a vst or little program I can drop a midi phrase into and it will permute that I can sell S1.
Any ideas for something ?

NOTE i have no interest in Loomer Architect nor any interest in random midi generators, just permutation of existing data
MIDI Ex Machina script in Reaper has a permute scale that does what you want, albeit in a slightly clunky manner (as many MXM things are... I am working on an update, honest...).

Not sure about Bitwig, you'd think there might be a note FX for that, but I can't confirm or deny...
thanks, that is working fine - thanks so much for making that script available. Had a bug to start with but updating sws fixed immediately - had no idea my sws was so old
Now my only problem is selling S1 :)

User avatar
neverbeeninariot
KVRist
450 posts since 3 Feb, 2015 from UK

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:45 am

fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:32 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:17 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:48 pm
Studio One has a nice feature that permutes selected midi notes. Note this is NOT random midi, it is taking existing notes and swapping them around with each other.
Thats about all I need S1 for, so if there is a vst or little program I can drop a midi phrase into and it will permute that I can sell S1.
Any ideas for something ?

NOTE i have no interest in Loomer Architect nor any interest in random midi generators, just permutation of existing data
MIDI Ex Machina script in Reaper has a permute scale that does what you want, albeit in a slightly clunky manner (as many MXM things are... I am working on an update, honest...).

Not sure about Bitwig, you'd think there might be a note FX for that, but I can't confirm or deny...
thanks, that is working fine - thanks so much for making that script available. Had a bug to start with but updating sws fixed immediately - had no idea my sws was so old
Now my only problem is selling S1 :)
:tu:

The SWS dependency is gone from the next version (though it will still use it if installed).

Can't help you with the S1 sale, sorry - I'm trying to get rid of my copy too :)

fairlyclose
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1969 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:48 am

neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:45 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:32 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:17 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:48 pm
Studio One has a nice feature that permutes selected midi notes. Note this is NOT random midi, it is taking existing notes and swapping them around with each other.
Thats about all I need S1 for, so if there is a vst or little program I can drop a midi phrase into and it will permute that I can sell S1.
Any ideas for something ?

NOTE i have no interest in Loomer Architect nor any interest in random midi generators, just permutation of existing data
MIDI Ex Machina script in Reaper has a permute scale that does what you want, albeit in a slightly clunky manner (as many MXM things are... I am working on an update, honest...).

Not sure about Bitwig, you'd think there might be a note FX for that, but I can't confirm or deny...
thanks, that is working fine - thanks so much for making that script available. Had a bug to start with but updating sws fixed immediately - had no idea my sws was so old
Now my only problem is selling S1 :)
:tu:

The SWS dependency is gone from the next version (though it will still use it if installed).

Can't help you with the S1 sale, sorry - I'm trying to get rid of my copy too :)
actually have found a problem - can only do up to 12 notes at a time. Is there a workaround for this?
and man is it hard to sell stuff secondhand now so good luck with your copy. Hope it sells just after mine :)

User avatar
neverbeeninariot
KVRist
450 posts since 3 Feb, 2015 from UK

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:54 am

fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:48 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:45 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:32 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:17 am

MIDI Ex Machina script in Reaper has a permute scale that does what you want, albeit in a slightly clunky manner (as many MXM things are... I am working on an update, honest...).

Not sure about Bitwig, you'd think there might be a note FX for that, but I can't confirm or deny...
thanks, that is working fine - thanks so much for making that script available. Had a bug to start with but updating sws fixed immediately - had no idea my sws was so old
Now my only problem is selling S1 :)
:tu:

The SWS dependency is gone from the next version (though it will still use it if installed).

Can't help you with the S1 sale, sorry - I'm trying to get rid of my copy too :)
actually have found a problem - can only do up to 12 notes at a time. Is there a workaround for this?
and man is it hard to sell stuff secondhand now so good luck with your copy. Hope it sells just after mine :)
A twelve note spread of notes? Yeah, that is one of the limitations of the randomiser, it only works over an octave, but if you click the X2 toggle on the right hand side, it should extend it to 2 octaves.

If that's not enough, I'll have to get a wriggle on with the updates.... (it's currently in bits on the back room floor)

fairlyclose
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1969 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:59 am

neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:54 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:48 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:45 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:32 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:17 am

MIDI Ex Machina script in Reaper has a permute scale that does what you want, albeit in a slightly clunky manner (as many MXM things are... I am working on an update, honest...).

Not sure about Bitwig, you'd think there might be a note FX for that, but I can't confirm or deny...
thanks, that is working fine - thanks so much for making that script available. Had a bug to start with but updating sws fixed immediately - had no idea my sws was so old
Now my only problem is selling S1 :)
:tu:

The SWS dependency is gone from the next version (though it will still use it if installed).

Can't help you with the S1 sale, sorry - I'm trying to get rid of my copy too :)
actually have found a problem - can only do up to 12 notes at a time. Is there a workaround for this?
and man is it hard to sell stuff secondhand now so good luck with your copy. Hope it sells just after mine :)
A twelve note spread of notes? Yeah, that is one of the limitations of the randomiser, it only works over an octave, but if you click the X2 toggle on the right hand side, it should extend it to 2 octaves.

If that's not enough, I'll have to get a wriggle on with the updates.... (it's currently in bits on the back room floor)
to work as I want, it needs to randomise all selected notes up to any reasonable number eg 500 so there will be repeated notes eg you get 17 C3, 4 D3, 2Eb4 etc etc. This might be way outside your MIDI ex Machina's scope and pretty tricky to implement

User avatar
neverbeeninariot
KVRist
450 posts since 3 Feb, 2015 from UK

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:14 am

fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:59 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:54 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:48 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:45 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:32 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:17 am

MIDI Ex Machina script in Reaper has a permute scale that does what you want, albeit in a slightly clunky manner (as many MXM things are... I am working on an update, honest...).

Not sure about Bitwig, you'd think there might be a note FX for that, but I can't confirm or deny...
thanks, that is working fine - thanks so much for making that script available. Had a bug to start with but updating sws fixed immediately - had no idea my sws was so old
Now my only problem is selling S1 :)
:tu:

The SWS dependency is gone from the next version (though it will still use it if installed).

Can't help you with the S1 sale, sorry - I'm trying to get rid of my copy too :)
actually have found a problem - can only do up to 12 notes at a time. Is there a workaround for this?
and man is it hard to sell stuff secondhand now so good luck with your copy. Hope it sells just after mine :)
A twelve note spread of notes? Yeah, that is one of the limitations of the randomiser, it only works over an octave, but if you click the X2 toggle on the right hand side, it should extend it to 2 octaves.

If that's not enough, I'll have to get a wriggle on with the updates.... (it's currently in bits on the back room floor)
to work as I want, it needs to randomise all selected notes up to any reasonable number eg 500 so there will be repeated notes eg you get 17 C3, 4 D3, 2Eb4 etc etc. This might be way outside your MIDI ex Machina's scope and pretty tricky to implement
:) that is quite a few. Unfortunately, as things stand, it's somewhat outside the capabilities of the current version.

Permute/shuffle as an algorithm is easy to implement (for any number of notes and duplicates) - MXM only has those limitations because permute was bolted onto the randomiser as a special scale for a quick-fix to a request, and it doesn't implement a normal shuffle routine (like Fisher-Yates for example, which in hindsight would have been a lot easier and more extensible).

Double apologies today, your search continues...

fairlyclose
KVRAF

Topic Starter

1969 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:22 am

neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:14 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:59 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:54 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:48 am
neverbeeninariot wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:45 am
fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:32 am


thanks, that is working fine - thanks so much for making that script available. Had a bug to start with but updating sws fixed immediately - had no idea my sws was so old
Now my only problem is selling S1 :)
:tu:

The SWS dependency is gone from the next version (though it will still use it if installed).

Can't help you with the S1 sale, sorry - I'm trying to get rid of my copy too :)
actually have found a problem - can only do up to 12 notes at a time. Is there a workaround for this?
and man is it hard to sell stuff secondhand now so good luck with your copy. Hope it sells just after mine :)
A twelve note spread of notes? Yeah, that is one of the limitations of the randomiser, it only works over an octave, but if you click the X2 toggle on the right hand side, it should extend it to 2 octaves.

If that's not enough, I'll have to get a wriggle on with the updates.... (it's currently in bits on the back room floor)
to work as I want, it needs to randomise all selected notes up to any reasonable number eg 500 so there will be repeated notes eg you get 17 C3, 4 D3, 2Eb4 etc etc. This might be way outside your MIDI ex Machina's scope and pretty tricky to implement
:) that is quite a few. Unfortunately, as things stand, it's somewhat outside the capabilities of the current version.

Permute/shuffle as an algorithm is easy to implement (for any number of notes and duplicates) - MXM only has those limitations because permute was bolted onto the randomiser as a special scale for a quick-fix to a request, and it doesn't implement a normal shuffle routine (like Fisher-Yates for example, which in hindsight would have been a lot easier and more extensible).

Double apologies today, your search continues...
thanks anyway - back to mulab free - which works fine but I am then working outside my DAW s not as interactive and immediate

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
6576 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:45 am

fairlyclose wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:43 am
Love to hear how you would go about it in Bitwig tho
Look into “Transpose Map” it should do it…
If you want more than octave mapping, create a Note FX Layer and place filters for the octaves before feeding it into the map.
I guess you could create a reascript for Reaper. There is a place that can help:
https://forum.cockos.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3

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