I see NI have just started with a subscription offering.....'Komplete Now'

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
4787 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:26 pm

noiseboyuk wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:25 am
elxsound wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:57 am
What are you on about? I’ve read a few of your comments that ignore some of the elephants in the room regarding problems with subscriptions.
Ok, let's go through these:

Adobe: changed to subscription model but offer perpetual licenses of their last bundle, CS6

As far as I'm aware, the subscription was announced and that was that - it was the end of perpetual overnight. They may have done a one-time final offer, but this doesn't count as a company who ran the two things side by side for a while and then ditched perpetual.

Avid’s Pro Tools: changed to a subscription, supposed to offered alongside a perpetual license *but* once that perpetual license only covers 1 year of maintenance updates plus penalties if you don’t subscribe before the year is over.

Again, this isn't the same as the case here. As you say, the moment they started subs they added the support package to their perpetual licenses to make the sub-lite. They never operated the two systems side by side and then eroded the perpetual license - they eroded it right away.

Izotope: subscriptions offered alongside perpetual licenses *but* new feature and updates offered to subscription users before eventually being rolled to perpetual users.

They've keep going with their perpetual licenses in exactly the same way as they always have. No change whatsoever. Sales, deals, new versions - just as before. They throw an occasional early feature into the subs, but perpetual license-holders get them on the next update in the normal way. They're not penalised.

So 0/3 there in terms of the widespread fear that starting softly softly optional subscription is the thin end of the wedge. Again, I think it MUST have happened somewhere, but it hasn't in any of these three cases. In each of those, when the subs came in, they set up their own rules and have stuck to them.
Adobe and Avid (pro tools ) are industry standard and it's one of the reasons why they can offer subscription only , big stdios, commercial design , magazine ads etc...
They will always have a pro customer base
Native instruments , izotope etc.are a totally different categorie
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

User avatar
Super Piano Hater 64
KVRist
196 posts since 24 Jan, 2021

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:47 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:26 pm
Adobe and Avid (pro tools ) are industry standard and it's one of the reasons why they can offer subscription only , big stdios, commercial design , magazine ads etc...
They will always have a pro customer base
Native instruments , izotope etc.are a totally different categorie
Kontakt is absolutely an industry standard. I don't like it, but so many of the best-selling sample libraries are built on it.

In fact, Kontakt is the first thing I'd expect them to introduce subscription pricing for. Its omission from this bundle is really glaring.
I hate signatures too.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
3591 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:48 pm

machine_spirit wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:14 pm
I like how you just blandly ignore where you came from with your "argumentation", while ignoring the example i mentioned too.
I don't even know what this means.

My original challenge was to name developers who started with an optional subscription service, and later made it subscription-only. Thus far Adobe seems to qualify - they did this briefly in 2012/2013 - but iZotope and Avid don't.

Actually did you/someone also suggest Reason? I know nothing about their product, pricing or models - does it fall into this camp? Did they run subs and perpetual side by side for a while, then drop the latter?
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2019 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 10.5
MBP 2015 OSX 10.13.3 2.8ghz 16gb 1TB SSD

SHall1000
KVRian
686 posts since 13 May, 2015

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:59 pm

I was livid when Adobe Lightroom went subscription only. But I am still using My Lightroom 5.0 license from 2013 and don’t miss any of the updated features I’ve never used.
Maybe there is something to learn from this… :?

machine_spirit
KVRist
96 posts since 10 Aug, 2021

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:00 pm

noiseboyuk wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:48 pm
machine_spirit wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:14 pm
I like how you just blandly ignore where you came from with your "argumentation", while ignoring the example i mentioned too.
I don't even know what this means.

My original challenge was to name developers who started with an optional subscription service, and later made it subscription-only. Thus far Adobe seems to qualify - they did this briefly in 2012/2013 - but iZotope and Avid don't.

Actually did you/someone also suggest Reason? I know nothing about their product, pricing or models - does it fall into this camp? Did they run subs and perpetual side by side for a while, then drop the latter?
Read the post you quoted, including the quotes. It seems you believe you're the only one who gets to decide what is relevant, and when. You've been given several different examples of developers who immediately or eventually took a dump on their perpetual licenses in one way or another when/after subscription was introduced. Examples for every variation of challenge you've come up with. The poll in the other thread about subscriptions in general speaks for itself, that kind of rejection doesn't come out of nowhere. Just the fact that venture capital and developers in a monopoly position seem to gravitate towards subscriptions is evidence enough that it should be avoided.

iPlogger
KVRian
756 posts since 27 Oct, 2011 from Pacific Northwest

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:07 pm

SHall1000 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:59 pm
I was livid when Adobe Lightroom went subscription only. But I am still using My Lightroom 5.0 license from 2013 and don’t miss any of the updated features I’ve never used.
Maybe there is something to learn from this… :?
Hahahahaha. Same here, except I think I'm on Lightroom 4. I wish I upgraded because the version I have is not 64-bit. Their yearly subscription was more than purchasing Lightroom. I just looked and apparently a Lightroom subscription is now $34 per month.

Sindikhate
KVRist
411 posts since 26 Jun, 2016

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:50 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:15 am
So I wonder why people are getting their panties into a bunch... Perpetual licenses are staying unchanged and available and there are no plans to remove that at all. Subscription here is just another option, another entry point, nothing else. And this was mentioned a number of times in the past few years.
I am quoting you here from page 2.. I have not read the next 4 pages yet.

Well there is this saying "Show me your friends and I will tell you who you are /or and I will tell your future".

NI and Izotope's "friendship" now.. well.. hmm..

Izo Pro versions of plugins getting all the updates but not the Advanced ones for example is a good example to get my panties into a bunch.

We are living in times where retailers would increase the price of an audio interface for 10-15eu for the 100 pieces (if that) they will get (Thomann's price increase on Motu M4 today) as if Thomann really needs that extra 1k. UAD bundled some plugins they used to give for free with their X interfaces and bumped the prices for 300-400eu. Eventide used to sell the blackhole vst for 70 bucks and they increased the price to the sky later on. There is stagnation, I understand that, especially in this industry, but you tell me not to worry about the future of software that costs over 1k (UCE versions for example) that people bought?? And I do not care if these are professional tools or not. Art is about expressing yourself, not all people are in it to make money out of it, for some it is their escape, for some it is a healing process, for some is to get a hot chick wtv you get my point . No wonder more and more people are moving back to hardware even if it is some 90s "junk".

On top of it all.. They start this sub idiocy with an utterly retarded and overpriced offer.
I do not think they have any idea what they are doing the last few years. And this is also a result of hiring people for the wrong reasons.

Clearly software companies want to push people towards subscription. That is why Izo updates the Pro versions with features that will not appear on advanced versions (or so has been said). I was gonna get the 4.1 package of theirs but I decided to give that money to companies that do not push for that kind of future.

bungle
KVRAF
1781 posts since 12 Mar, 2004

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:42 pm

What a crap pack for the money.
If your plugin is a C++ creation, please don't say so.
If it is, pop round Marcos, he has just bought you a Mac to port it.

dune_rave
KVRAF
2193 posts since 23 Jun, 2006 from Hungary

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:24 pm

Ni have to improve....
their synths are behind the competition, and kontakt and battery are the only thing people buy the komplete bundle. And now when we have vcv rack in plugin form , people will not use reaktor for modular stuff. (and theres cherryaudio voltage modular too).
I have reaktor installed, but i kept it for one reason: to control other plugins. it seems obvious that vcv rack plugin can be better for this purpose. so I will test it, than i will see...

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
6576 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:07 pm

iPlogger wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:07 pm
SHall1000 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:59 pm
I was livid when Adobe Lightroom went subscription only. But I am still using My Lightroom 5.0 license from 2013 and don’t miss any of the updated features I’ve never used.
Maybe there is something to learn from this… :?
Hahahahaha. Same here, except I think I'm on Lightroom 4. I wish I upgraded because the version I have is not 64-bit. Their yearly subscription was more than purchasing Lightroom. I just looked and apparently a Lightroom subscription is now $34 per month.
Switch to Darktable it does the same for free…
Or switch from ProTools to Reaper with a ProTools skin…
That is the only valid answer. The time you invest to relearn a tool is less than dealing with those “too big to fail” attitude of those companies. Usually support sucks as well as my ongoing disastrous experiences with Avid shows… I don’t understand that this is supposed to be professional…
There are two sorts of professionals:
The good one is someone who cares.
The ignorant one says “who cares?”

But NI I have confidence they don’t want to force you to subscriptions… This sub offer is laughable anyway…

holdenhk
KVRist
45 posts since 26 Aug, 2020

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:17 pm

SLiC wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:36 am
Anyway...sweepstake, IK next to offer subscription, then Arura ;-)
At least, IK were nice to give their (almost) entire catalogue away for a pittance this summer. Arturia was also quite generous with V Collection for $199 and Pigments for $49. I passed their FX Collection offer, though it was tempting ($69). Compared to this, NI's recent offers look like a joke.
Spencer Maddox wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:10 pm
I don't like this at all.
I actually, perhaps controversially, am not opposed to a subscription version of Komplete. As long as the standalone would not be touched.
The standalone version may not be touched, but I'm afraid gone are the summers of sound and other ways to upgrade/update on the cheap. They rehearsed it this BF when they offered 'All upgrades and updates at 50%" and applied a mysterious algorithm that calculated that 50% of $200 is $139...

User avatar
machinesworking
KVRAF
4091 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:55 pm

flori89 wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:22 am
Wow, talk about underwhelming. That has to be the worst subscription service to date. They even included two things they gave away for free. Like seriously they couldn’t be bothered to include Replika XT, no they seriously added the version they hand out for free.

Are they testing on how extremely lame they can make the content and people will still buy it? In comparison the Reason+ subscription looks like so much value all of a sudden. What’s going on over at NI.

If they have success with that, I‘ll be convinced that audio people will buy about everything.
This, a thousand times over. This is hardly better than their free selection. I could 100% get them rolling out Komplete Collection Ultimate as a subscription choice for $20-30 a month, but this is pretty sad. :dog:

Then again I'm not a marketing guy, their "Play" kontakt rompler instruments drenched in FX with samples you can't access, and limited control of the patch are totally useless to me, and people love them apparently?

User avatar
machinesworking
KVRAF
4091 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:02 pm

SLiC wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:49 am
ShawnG wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:45 am
I would rather do a sub for Komplete (ultimate in my case) than the usual having to wait years for the new stuff to be bundled, but this isn’t that.  So…
They used to do exactly that about a decade ago...I can remember what it was called (but I bet it began with a 'K') but it didn't work (for me) as sometimes you could go a year and they didn't launch anything!
It was more like 15 years ago. Komplete Care was the name. They dropped the ball big time the second year and had to drop the update plan, not really a subscription, you would get any product they released that year if you owned Komplete. They went a year not releasing anything and the product was scrapped after extending it to two years to make up and giving us all copies of Massive etc. NI have always been an amazing dazzling innovative shit show. :hihi:

GeneralQ
KVRist
63 posts since 10 Sep, 2019

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:20 pm

I don't get the hate to be honest. As long as they don't change the regular licences they can offer a subscription if they want. Same with izotope. I have quite a few izotope products and they still work just as they had before they introduced a subscription. They are also still offering sales and bundles just as before.
Most subscriptions are bad but as long as you can still buy their stuff normaly I really don't mind it.

User avatar
digitalboytn
KVRAF
2311 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Post Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:33 pm

My migration away from Native Instruments is almost komplete :)
No auto tune and iLok free...

Return to “Instruments”