Reason 12 update out (12.2.2)

[machine_spirit]

The whole deal with automating the creative process is rather depressing (as is RS direction) but there's a brighter side to it like some have mentioned here. I think writing melodies is one of those things that you need natural talent for, so i'm not sure they're limiting anyones ability because a good composer wouldn't ever get limited by and stuck with these devices, they're not good enough from what i've seen. No doubt there will be a point where there's so little craft left to the process that people start to wonder what the point of it all is, but i'm not sure that's relevant yet (in music).

[Trancit]

A silly question by the way:

What happened to the A-List guitarist RE´s in Reason???

I cannot see them in the shop...

[jens]

The whole deal with automating the creative process is rather depressing (as is RS direction) but there's a brighter side to it like some have mentioned here. I think writing melodies is one of those things that you need natural talent for, so i'm not sure they're limiting anyones ability because a good composer wouldn't ever get limited by and stuck with these devices, they're not good enough from what i've seen. No doubt there will be a point where there's so little craft left to the process that people start to wonder what the point of it all is, but i'm not sure that's relevant yet (in music).

They don't scare me one bit... but I think as musicians we should trieve to grow, learn, improve our skills - and I think tools like this are detrimental to this objective - they're like support wheels on kid's bikes - many parents still use them, but that doesn't change anything about them being seriously bad:

https://kidsrideshotgun.eu/blogs/news/s ... ing-wheels

Criticizing parents for using these doesn't mean you scoff at their kid who can't (yet) ride. The dudes in this thread who claim I was arrogant, condescending and what not need to understand the difference between those two.


Coming up with decent synth-basslines (or whatever else) involves playing to a loop and then recording to a loop - get into the groove. Record as many takes as you may ever need. Then perhaps edit the hell out of your best take if need be afterwards. But do it carefully. (Don't just quantize everything).*
(And your playing-skills will improve over time rather naturally. You'll also learn to react/ improvise/compose better, understand more of what makes a bassline a good bassline and so forth).

The result will have a lot more feel and soul and real groove and will have a lot more to do with you and your music than anything this thing could ever come up with.
But guess what: Reason STILL doesn't have MIDI lopp-recording (and which other DAW doesn't? - like seriously, for crying out loud!) . So if they wanted to help you creating better basslines they could finally implement that. But what do they waste their precious development-time on instead?




*Saying: "what? You can't get it right on the first take?" would be arrogant. I neither say nor mean anything like that.

[JamminFool]

The dudes in this thread who claim I was arrogant, condescending and what not need to understand the difference between those two.

we dont "need" to do anything.

you can backtrack if you like, and come back with your "wise sage" advice, but if that's what you meant, that is what you should have written the first time.

[Trancit]

...but I think as musicians we should trieve to grow, learn, improve our skills - ...

And this is where your story falls apart...

Most producers aren´t musicians...
No need to be musician... even it could help... apart from the arrogance and ignorance...

[jens]

Ah, the plot thickens...

I thought Reason was supposed to be a tool for musicians - looks like I got that wrong - my bad!

[jens]

The dudes in this thread who claim I was arrogant, condescending and what not need to understand the difference between those two.

we dont "need" to do anything.

you can backtrack if you like, and come back with your "wise sage" advice, but if that's what you meant, that is what you should have written the first time.

After noticing that you guys appeared to read all kinds of things into what I said about this new Player which it I didn't actually write (nor thought), I seeked to make myself clearer. That's all there is too it.

[SLiC]

Most producers aren´t musicians...

Are you sure about that? Most producers I have met or read about can play an instrument…many got into production through being in a band.

[antic604]

The new Player is out. 74EUR/USD or "free" with R+. It's also in Rewards Store.

After looking at few YT videos, I have to say it's pretty awesome! :love

It's funny how this stuff works, I realized this wasn't for me right away, because I rarely start a song from percussion and melody, then put the baseline in last? 90% of the time I'm starting from bass or melody, then adding drums after the other two are done. I start a whole hell of a lot of songs off of a strong bass line, single note run.

So why you're saying it wasn't for you? Obviously if you have a concrete idea then you don't need this, but sometimes fooling around with a tool like this you can come up with something that will inspire the rest of the track. And you can always just render the notes out and work from there, too.

I'm not saying you need this. Just that you usually starting from bass doesn't exclude this from being useful.

[Trancit]

Most producers aren´t musicians...

Are you sure about that? Most producers I have met or read about can play an instrument…many got into production through being in a band.

Really... ?

I cannot count anymore how many Artists/Youtubers doing really cool stuff have 1000 times stated they cannot play any instrument and have no clue about music theory...
Big example is deadmau5 for sure...Tristan...and the last I heard it from was TM88:
https://youtu.be/TLfH7s60Z_w?t=160
Watch from 2:40 min
From wikipedia:

Bryan Lamar Simmons (born April 4, 1987), professionally known as TM88 (also known as TrackMan 88), is an American record producer and DJ from Atlanta, Georgia. He is a member of the Atlanta-based record production and songwriting team 808 Mafia, as one of the lead members next to Southside.[1][2] Simmons produced the global hit XO Tour Llif3. The track would go on to become Grammy nominated and one of the most streamed tracks on Spotify with around 1.5 billion streams as of July 2021.

But there are so many others...
Making nowadays music doesn´t have to be done by a musician (luckily)...

However this doesn´t stop them from being quite successful...

For sure this will be more genre related... Producers with musical background I think you will find more often in the more classical genres like Pop, Rock, Classic, Country...whatever...

But I highly doubt that all the millions of bedroom producers out there know reading music or play any instrument to a deeper degree...

[machine_spirit]

(And your playing-skills will improve over time rather naturally. You'll also learn to react/ improvise/compose better, understand more of what makes a bassline a good bassline and so forth).

The result will have a lot more feel and soul and real groove and will have a lot more to do with you and your music than anything this thing could ever come up with.

For sure. I just get the feeling that most people willing to spend energy on that wouldn't get limited by these tools to begin with. At least not enough people that the devices would essentially be a bad thing in a greater sense.

Making nowadays music doesn´t have to be done by a musician (luckily)...

How can you produce music without being a musician? I don't know what the standard definitions are for these words but they seriously need some work if it results in something like this quote.

[sQeetz]

How can you produce music without being a musician? I don't know what the standard definitions are for these words but they seriously need some work if it results in something like this quote.

Just yesterday a friend of mine showed me a youtube video of a guy who is a millionaire for just selling melodies to big name Rap/Trap Producers. Those "producers" are merely DJs putting Beats over his melodies.

[Trancit]

Making nowadays music doesn´t have to be done by a musician (luckily)...

How can you produce music without being a musician? I don't know what the standard definitions are for these words but they seriously need some work if it results in something like this quote.

A muscian like we are talking about here (judging from the statements which brought up this discussion) is a musical trained person being able to play on his/her instrument whatever is necessary to live record every piece of music which is required or wished with a deep knowledge of music theory...

So far my understanding if someone states he basically cannot accept people neat "cheat codes" to come up with stuff a real muscian can play live anyway...

Laying this definition as a fundament, please don´t tell me this knowledge would be necessary at all to make beats or produce any style of electronic music nowadays...
Everybody got ears to check if he/she likes what he/she hears...
Everybody got a mouse to click in the necessary notes...
Everything else is just trial and error with lesser extend as soon as experience grows... but it stays trial and error

And this is nothing new... even the most ungifted person of the world can achieve this with enough work invested...
Nowaday music isn´t based on musical sophistication...
It is based on simple basic melodies and following the rules of this genre...

The really important part is sounddesign/ respectively finding the right sounds complimenting each other, lots of effort put into the arrangement and a lot of mixing skills...
For none of these necessary tasks a trained musician has got the slightest advantage from his/her education...

And the history repeats itself over and over again...
As the first rock songs came up the "real" muscians laughed at them and scoffed about the fact everybody can do this by learning 3 or 4 chords on the guitar...

As the first electronic music came up the "real" musicians including the "Rocker" who were mocked before scoffed about the fact electronic producers couldn´t even play any instrument...

So here we are now where the "real" muscians are mocking those who are interested on devices to help them coming up with cool ideas...

Doesn´t give it a shit how someone came to this or that idea??
Isn´t it million times more important to create a cool musical idea no matter how this was done??
Why can´t "real" muscians accept that probably exactly the fact that somebody because of NOT being trained can come to results the other never would have thought of because it´s perhaps against what they have learned...?

End of "rant"

[SLiC]

Isn´t it million times more important to create a cool musical idea no matter how this was done??

I guess it depends why you do this- I started out doing it to play live in a band (guitar) and nothing I have ever done since even touches the sides of those days...it's fun tinkering around in my little home studio, but writing with a band and playing it live is another level for me. If you are writing for games, move soundtracks and maybe EDM I guess it doesn't matter how you produce the music.

Personally I don't realty like EDM (although I can appreciate the skill it takes to make good EDM) but I do wonder if cover bands will be playing these 'songs' in 20 years....I still get up and dance when a hear an ABBA track

[MTorn]

And this is nothing new... even the most ungifted person of the world can achieve this with enough work invested...
Nowaday music isn´t based on musical sophistication...
It is based on simple basic melodies and following the rules of this genre...

Aha! I guess this explains why most new stuff is generic joyless pap.

What people seem to enjoy isn’t musicians making music. It’s producers making product.