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shugs · Post by **shugs** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:40 pm

thanks all. I was simply stuck on the 'naming' of the quality of the 7th term and have that resolved. I was mistakenly thinking it had something to do with the type of 3rd that was being placed on top of the triad.

My next question has to do with inversions...Is it true that, given the 4 notes in a 7th chord, to determine whether it is a root, 1st, 2nd or 3rd inversion, one only concerns one's self with the lowest sounding note ? That the order of the other notes on the staff are immaterial and can be placed anywhere and in any octave? In other words, a 2nd inversion, say, does not have a specific order of the notes and two people who are asked to play a 2nd inversion of a 7th chord very likely may play notes in a different order from one another ?

shawshawraw · Post by **shawshawraw** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:51 pm

Yes, yes, and yes. Only bass note matters.

shugs · Post by **shugs** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:57 pm

so C/E isn't more specific other than that E is in the base?

shawshawraw · Post by **shawshawraw** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:12 pm

shugs wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:57 pm so C/E isn't more specific other than that E is in the base?

Yep. The upper voices are free to do anything as long as they pertain to the harmony.

shugs · Post by **shugs** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:15 pm

you are the man ! (or woman)

shawshawraw · Post by **shawshawraw** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:20 pm

You're welcome!

shugs · Post by **shugs** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:47 pm

can anyone explain the notes of an A7 chord ? I am struggling why it doesn't include G sharp A-C#-E is a major triad and E-G# is a major interval I am thinking G# is what I want, but book answer has just plain G. Why are they making it a Dominant 7th ?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:52 pm

common parlance (pop music lead sheets/fake books etc) has a mere 7 appended to a chord name meaning that kind of 7th chord; where eg., A .. G# is given as 'Maj7' or ^7 (except the sign there is actually a triangle).

shugs · Post by **shugs** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:54 pm

ok,,so a bare 7 will imply a dominant chord ? so Em7 is supposed to be a Dominant ?

shugs · Post by **shugs** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:56 pm

or did the m mean, I'm doing a minor 7th?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:12 pm

it indicates the 7 is a minor quality seventh. small m is minor 3rd, regardless

shugs · Post by **shugs** » Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:44 pm

Final coming up Wednesday.....Here's a question I am stuck on: I am supposed to present the notes (triad) in the VII chord in the key of F# minor..... I assumed I first need to raise the E to E# to create a leading tone and then E# to G# is a Major interval and G# to B is a minor, so my answer was E#- G#- B. This is apparently wrong and the first note is supposed to be an E.

I guess my question is why does the vii chord start with E# whilst the VII chord starts with E ?

And then, what would be the v chord in this example ? Would I not sharp the E ?

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:21 pm

shugs wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:44 pm Final coming up Wednesday.....Here's a question I am stuck on: I am supposed to present the notes (triad) in the VII chord in the key of F# minor..... I assumed I first need to raise the E to E# to create a leading tone and then E# to G# is a Major interval and G# to B is a minor, so my answer was E#- G#- B. This is apparently wrong and the first note is supposed to be an E.

I guess my question is why does the vii chord start with E# whilst the VII chord starts with E ?

And then, what would be the v chord in this example ? Would I not sharp the E ?

I don't understand what kind of question is that you were asked. That's the problem when looking at chords as entities, instead of looking at them considering the functions they perform inside a given tonality. That alluded seventh chord in F# minor serves no purpose whatsoever, in terms of tonal function.

shugs · Post by **shugs** » Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:31 pm

That may be so, and maybe that's what threw me off as the seventh chord in a minor is a fully diminished chord...But this is a practice question asking me to state the three notes that make up a Major 7th in the key of F# minor. For whatever reason, I think the point of the question is to get me to recognize that I must use an E and not an E sharp. But I dont understand that reason. And then this got me thinking about the 5th in the same key, but a minor 5th vs the Major 5th

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:40 pm

shugs wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:31 pm That may be so, and maybe that's what threw me off as the seventh chord in a minor is a fully diminished chord...But this is a practice question asking me to state the three notes that make up a Major 7th in the key of F# minor. For whatever reason, I think the point of the question is to get me to recognize that I must use an E and not an E sharp. But I dont understand that reason. And then this got me thinking about the 5th in the same key, but a minor 5th vs the Major 5th

Pay attention to those terms - there are no minor 5ths or major fifths. There are minor third and major third intervals and minor and major chords (all with perfect fifths). The fifth is always PERFECT, no matter the chord is Major or minor. If you build a chord over the fifth degree of the scale without the leading tone (which would form a major third over the root), that chord will perform no tonal function (once again). That's useless, harmonically speaking. That chord would only be justified in an harmonic movement towards the relative major, for example. If you are INDEED in F# minor, then you will have to use the C# Major chord (with or without the seventh). Otherwise, you will destroy the tonality, transforming it to a mode (the Aeolian mode), which is not what one may want.

interval quality question