Reason 12 update out (12.2.2)

[SLiC]

When you make it easy to create content, you get more 'content creators' than content consumers...I'm not saying that a bad thing, there is still great music out there....but I sort of agree a lot of it is very highly polished turds.

[Trancit]

Aha! I guess this explains why most new stuff is generic joyless pap.

What people seem to enjoy isn’t musicians making music. It’s producers making product.

Is this really new to you???

Do you know what happens if you play some teenagers big classic symphonies??
Apart from a few examples after 20 seconds they cannot follow along anymore... it gets too complicated and this isn´t nowadays educated "taste" anymore...

A hundred years ago children in school had to memorize one A4 page of text every day to train their brain...
Nowadays they do simplest math with a calculator... not to speak that most will have problems to memorize more than 2 sentences...

We are more and more trained by the implemented system to want new and new stuff faster and faster...better every minute than every hour not speak of concentrating or being happy on/with something a whole day or even a week...

Do you know how much time you´ve got to call the attention of somebody for a YT video???
7 seconds... if in this 7 seconds nothing happens to keep the interest ...it´s game over...
In this system there is no place for complexity anymore...

But we should stop slowly on this discussion...
I fear we moved too far away from the original topic and soon Hink will step in and will scold us...

[machine_spirit]

Those "producers" are merely DJs putting Beats over his melodies.

I mean, they're still making music. Even just combining two loops effectively takes some manner of talent. But obviously it's less demanding than creating something from smaller pieces.

A muscian like we are talking about here (judging from the statements which brought up this discussion) is a musical trained person being able to play on his/her instrument whatever is necessary to live record every piece of music which is required or wished with a deep knowledge of music theory...

The really important part is sounddesign/ respectively finding the right sounds complimenting each other, lots of effort put into the arrangement and a lot of mixing skills...

I would consider both of these things to be musicianship. IMO such narrow definitions of "musician" or "producer" doesn't make sense. I don't think jens meant it like that either but i could be wrong.

it's fun tinkering around in my little home studio, but writing with a band and playing it live is another level for me.

Assuming you're doing the writing, the music itself is probably on a similar level, it's just that it's very easy to get hyped up about something together with other people.

[machine_spirit]

but I sort of agree a lot of it is very highly polished turds.

In this system there is no place for complexity anymore...

Discussing cultural decay in a thread about a Reason Studios product doesn't seem off topic to me

[Trancit]

but I sort of agree a lot of it is very highly polished turds.

In this system there is no place for complexity anymore...

Discussing cultural decay in a thread about a Reason Studios product doesn't seem off topic to me

I am aware of this... when you look at the end of my posting:

But we should stop slowly on this discussion...
I fear we moved too far away from the original topic and soon Hink will step in and will scold us...

[machinesworking]

A muscian like we are talking about here (judging from the statements which brought up this discussion) is a musical trained person being able to play on his/her instrument whatever is necessary to live record every piece of music which is required or wished with a deep knowledge of music theory...

So far my understanding if someone states he basically cannot accept people neat "cheat codes" to come up with stuff a real muscian can play live anyway...

Laying this definition as a fundament, please don´t tell me this knowledge would be necessary at all to make beats or produce any style of electronic music nowadays...
Everybody got ears to check if he/she likes what he/she hears...
Everybody got a mouse to click in the necessary notes...
Everything else is just trial and error with lesser extend as soon as experience grows... but it stays trial and error

And this is nothing new... even the most ungifted person of the world can achieve this with enough work invested...
Nowaday music isn´t based on musical sophistication...
It is based on simple basic melodies and following the rules of this genre...

The really important part is sounddesign/ respectively finding the right sounds complimenting each other, lots of effort put into the arrangement and a lot of mixing skills...
For none of these necessary tasks a trained musician has got the slightest advantage from his/her education...

Yeah I would disagree. You don't need a lot of theory to realize that having some understanding of theory cuts down drastically on the trial and error part you describe. That is IMO the most significant advantage, getting a song from the loop stage to the finished song stage by cutting down on the trial and error. In fact the whole argument is to me why forums like this and others have threads about people being able to create a nice loop, but it never becomes a song.

Theory is just codifying the structure of music. You can of course create music without theory, it's just going to generally take you longer if you get stuck to finish a song. I highly doubt people doing music for episodical TV for instance are hunting and pecking to finish a part, the time frames to finish the music are too short not to learn some theory, they certainly aren't going to limit themselves by lack of knowledge like your youtube example to just major and minor chords.

To get back to the point of the original discussion, I don't really personally have any use for a melody generator. I get that it's a huge advantage for some people, and honestly considering the built in limitations what amounts to a theory note or chord generator has, I just take it as an area where I can take greater risks than the person who needs or wants to use something like that. I'm not insulted or threatened by people who use these things, or cut and past music in general, and I certainly don't look down on them.

[antic604]

Coming up with decent synth-basslines (or whatever else) involves playing to a loop and then recording to a loop - get into the groove. Record as many takes as you may ever need. Then perhaps edit the hell out of your best take if need be afterwards. But do it carefully. (Don't just quantize everything).*
(And your playing-skills will improve over time rather naturally. You'll also learn to react/ improvise/compose better, understand more of what makes a bassline a good bassline and so forth).

The result will have a lot more feel and soul and real groove and will have a lot more to do with you and your music than anything this thing could ever come up with.

Are you seriously pretending to not know there's lots of music genres where the bass line physically cannot be played? Or where the actual notes is 1/4 of what the bassline sounds like, because the rest is in automation and processing, so the notes aren't that important? Perhaps you don't see a point for such a device for your music, but don't generalise that to everyone else, putting them down in the process?

But guess what: Reason STILL doesn't have MIDI lopp-recording (and which other DAW doesn't? - like seriously, for crying out loud!)

Bitwig, unfortunately

[xbitz]

^^^ or FLS comes in FLS 21

[Trancit]

Yeah I would disagree. ...

I fear you don´t understand...

...but as I said we have to get back on topic...

[machinesworking]

Yeah I would disagree. ...

I fear you don´t understand...

...but as I said we have to get back on topic...

Your rant about theory wasn't specifically out of place, and replies to that rant aren't off topic, but your response is patronizing. The point remains, you're wrong about the usefulness of theory, but like most people on the internet nuance is lost on you, and like most conversations on the internet you're obsessed with winning, instead of recognizing that a conversation about a melody generator specifically will include this exact discussion.

[machinesworking]

So why you're saying it wasn't for you? Obviously if you have a concrete idea then you don't need this, but sometimes fooling around with a tool like this you can come up with something that will inspire the rest of the track. And you can always just render the notes out and work from there, too.

I'm not saying you need this. Just that you usually starting from bass doesn't exclude this from being useful.

IMO anyway things like this are good for breaking through writers block, but my particular shortcomings writing wise isn't related to bass. I do use similar things for drums to break habits there though, I'm not at all decrying the usefulness of such a tool, just mentioned that it's not my specific weak spot.

[Trancit]

Your rant about theory wasn't specifically out of place, and replies to that rant aren't off topic, but your response is patronizing. ...

This whole discussion is basically off topic and my response wasn´t meant patronizing... I just didn´t want to add fuel to the fire...
You say I am wrong... I say you are wrong... what gives... it doesn´t matter at all and we will find never a consent...

[Atlatnesiti]

Reason is brilliant software, love it since version 1.
Now mega happy with subscription model:)
The only thing that bugs me is not being able to save authorisation to reason usb, but they are working on it…

[machinesworking]

Reason is brilliant software, love it since version 1.
Now mega happy with subscription model:)
The only thing that bugs me is not being able to save authorisation to reason usb, but they are working on it…

I love that they still allow you to buy it. They also didn't penalize me at all for jumping from v2.5 to 10, longest jump I've ever made in software.

I'm also happy they did Reason Rack and the VST3 version. I pretty much always used it as a rack of gear in a DAW like DP or Logic etc. but I'm sad that Rewire wasn't developed into something even easier to use and more robust, now we have to wait around for Ableton Link to mature into something close and hope that Ableton doesn't shitcan it before that happens.

[Atlatnesiti]

BassLine generator out now