KVR Audio

vertibration · Post by **vertibration** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:07 am

DSP in Massive X is pretty nasty, I give credit where credit is due

vertibration · Post by **vertibration** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:08 am

machinesworking wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:20 am
vertibration wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:09 pm Imagine NI comes out and says " We are only doing Maschine, and midi controllers for now on, no more software plugin support"

Everyone will be screaming

"How dare you stop supporting something I never use, and never intend to use"!!!!
A little confused by this, but then Kontakt is a staple here.

My attitude would be that it's the nature of capitalism, some companies like U-He will probably support their software until Urs dies, but most need to make money, and if a product isn't making money they see no reason to continue to spend money on it. I'm not annoyed or interested in belittling peoples frustration with software though. It's weird to think of all the money I've spent on code that doesn't work anymore, because the developer never released serial from call and response, or it doesn't work on modern computers etc.

It was a joke....

paradiddle · Post by **paradiddle** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:19 am

Some jam with grobian in reaktor:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9lfjgv9w2r45b ... 3.mp3?dl=0

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:02 am

Listening to that piece, I'm not sure whether it's meant to be in support of NI or against. It certainly isn't in any way impressive (but neither is it particularly bad). You could have linked to something , which uses Substance (Kontakt instrument) for the bassline, Novo Elements (Kontakt instrument) for the strings that come in at 3:02 and TRK-01 Bass for the notch filtered bass part that comes in at 3:27. But that would be shameless self-promotion and, as such, a bit ugly and completely off-topic.

machinesworking wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:20 amIt's weird to think of all the money I've spent on code that doesn't work anymore, because the developer never released serial from call and response, or it doesn't work on modern computers etc.

Really? I've been buying VSTis for more than 20 years now and I can't think of anything that stopped working, up until we made the decision to move to a 64 bit host. A few things had stopped being supported - old ReFX synths (PlastiCZ and JunoX) and a few of Synapse's early things (Scorpion, mainly) but they all kept working perfectly well up until the point we made the conscious decision to move on from them. I've wasted a shit-tonne of money over the years but always because I'm an impulsive idiot, not because I bought anything that didn't work the way it was supposed to.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:17 am

pierb wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:23 am
I do like Massive X, it sounds great and has a couple of cool features, but it still seems like an unfinished product in many aspects. In terms of flexibility and features it doesn't even come close to PhasePlant. Heck, even Vital allows you to add more than 3 stereo effects and even... drag and drop effects!

Massive X is only half finished. The browser barely qualifies for the term, no midi learn, no direct parameter automation, no mousewheel support, no arrow key support, poor visual feedback, poor midi support - no MPE, no PolyAT, no Expression Pedal or Breath Controller support.

MX also doesn't have per voice MSEG's and the LFO's are oddly limited.

I like the sound of it, but otherwise it is one of the least enjoyable synths I have used. Way too much clicking around, lots of little menus, no way to see mod targets. And in the 2 1/2 years since it was released, very little has been done to improve its incomplete implementation. I no longer have it installed. MX is the most disappointing software synth purchase I've made. NI touted it as next generation and so I had high expectations. Instead it is missing a lot of basic functionality that the original Massive had. The DSP is better, but otherwise it has gone backwards.

Lazarus451 · Post by **Lazarus451** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:36 am

Kontakt has almost a monopoly position in sample based content as an ecosystem. But now the biggest library makers are moving to their own sample players, so in the long run NI might have a problem. Most of their synths are old and sample based market is changing. Maybe they will concentrate on hardware/nks/Machine stuff in the future?

Lazarus451 · Post by **Lazarus451** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:45 am

Maybe creator led companies are better suited for innovative instrument development? Check u-he, Vital, Serum etc. Or at least the main developers should keep working on the company. Is this the case in NI?

Synthack · Post by **Synthack** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:02 am

.........

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:02 am

BONES wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:02 am Really? I've been buying VSTis for more than 20 years now and I can't think of anything that stopped working, up until we made the decision to move to a 64 bit host.

So nothing stopped working until it stopped working on newer systems, got it.

For the record, yeah that's part of the equation, 64 bit, Apple of course and even Windows has some backwards compatibility issues. The other part is companies going under and the software slowly getting eaten up by OS changes, or even more fun, the call and response not working anymore, and a computer change. Companies stopping development on software and not updating it etc. etc.

By no means is it a total nightmare or anything, software redeems itself over hardware big time by being exponentially cheaper, but the lifespan is much different than hardware in some cases.

I've wasted a shit-tonne of money over the years but always because I'm an impulsive idiot, not because I bought anything that didn't work the way it was supposed to.

Yeah I'm guilty of that too, mostly sticking with software developers that seem to have a solid company is a smart move, and I've definitely bought some fly by night stuff. Arturia are a good example of a company that you can almost treat like hardware, the CS80, Moog Modular, 2600 are all 20 years old with updated GUI's, VST3 and M1 support.

NI are in a different category along with iZotope, where if it's long in the tooth it might get deprecated at some point, but they did state that wasn't their plan going forward when Kore was abandoned.

To be fair Arturia stopped development on their DAW, and Spark is deprecated beyond maintenance updates.

eluherlu · Post by **eluherlu** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:48 pm

Why is everyone keep saying Massive X is unfinished? Maybe Massive X was MEANT to be like that. No more no less

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:02 pm

eluherlu wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:48 pm Why is everyone keep saying Massive X is unfinished? Maybe Massive X was MEANT to be like that. No more no less

Could be

However, it was generally stated that because Massive X was delayed by some months, it had to get released and that subsequent updates would address some of the weak spots. It might not have been NI saying that but rather betatesters etc. I don't remember at this point.

In 2 1/2 years since the MX release nothing much has happened. Compare that to Arturia Pigments which was initially released 3 years ago. Version 2 came, then V3 and now Arturia just released Pigments 3.5 which is a significant free update.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:20 pm

pdxindy wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:17 am
Massive X is only half finished. The browser barely qualifies for the term, no midi learn, no direct parameter automation, no mousewheel support, no arrow key support, poor visual feedback, poor midi support - no MPE, no PolyAT, no Expression Pedal or Breath Controller support.

I think the 'opposite' of Massive X has been Pigments...su much development since launch, free updates. a fabulous newer 3.5 update just today. That is how you do it...

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:23 pm

SLiC wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:20 pm
pdxindy wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:17 am
Massive X is only half finished. The browser barely qualifies for the term, no midi learn, no direct parameter automation, no mousewheel support, no arrow key support, poor visual feedback, poor midi support - no MPE, no PolyAT, no Expression Pedal or Breath Controller support.

I think the 'opposite' of Massive X has been Pigments...su much development since launch, free updates. a fabulous newer 3.5 update just today. That is how you do it...

Indeed... and Pigments 3.5 is Apple Silicon native...

vata44 · Post by **vata44** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:32 pm

I think Reaktor is actually pretty cool. My only gripe is how annoying it is to thumb through the presets of a user made synth. Or how annoying it is to save your own Reaktor presets. Yes there is a lot of garbage out there in the Reaktor user area, but there are a few gems.

I will agree that an Absynth and FM8 update are in need, but as others have mentioned, NIs stuff is hardly useless. There is a ton of depth in almost all of their synths and like most synths, the limit is our imagination.

kobal · Post by **kobal** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:46 pm

massive X really need proper browser to me to organize patchs... i don t understand why it s not possible.. it s clearly not finished , then the rest is limitation of the design but it could be still be ok to me for my needs.
about cpu usage and sound quality i think it s right there with the best sounding stuff it make up for some of the limitation even if it s questionable, but really the browser i don t understand .. it look like yes it was not finished and we will see update just for bug fix it seems.
Maybe they hire some guys who don t work for ni aymore

Good Bye Reaktor, good bye NI synths