KVR Audio

sacer · Post by **sacer** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:36 pm

hope to get the old macros back soon. I also don't know wwhat they smoked, when they replaced the macros with this standard scrap

markrosoft · Post by **markrosoft** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:35 pm

I just want to echo people's complaints here. Analog Labs 4 is great and Analog Labs 5 kills everything that's great about it. In an interaction with Arturia customer support i was told that Analog 4 is no longer officially supported and I tried to ask why AL-V is so bad (in nice language) and the customer support person asked what I meant. I gave this example:

ADSR controls and cutoffs just don't seem to be mapped the same and functioning correctly in AL-V. In AL-4, they just work and it feels like I'm using a synth. In V, a lot of times those knobs or sliders are controlling **multiple** parameters. It's just not intuitive.

I just picked a random preset in both to see how they'd function differently. One called "Encounter Pad" for the Matrix-12 was the first one I clicked on. In AL-4 it works perfectly. I want to change the cutoff, I turn the Pan 1 knob and on the synth the knob goes from the zero position to the full position. If I switch over to AL-V, the knob stops at about 70% on the synth no matter how much I turn the knob on the Keylab. A similar thing happens with the release. I want to make the sound tighter... so on AL-4 I lower the release slider (ch-8 on my keylab). Sure enough, it gets tighter and works perfectly. But on the AL-V if I do the same thing, it only goes down to 44 (instead of 0 in AL-V). What's worse, if I use my mouse to turn the knob down to zero on the GUI, it STILL doesn't sound the same as AL-4 (it still has a very long release time).

I'm not sure what exactly is happening. This is just one preset but this is my experience with every preset -- it works perfectly in AL-4 and it just doesn't make sense in AL-5. You can't turn knobs from 0 to 100%. The knobs don't do what they're supposed to (and what they do perfectly in AL-4) and often times multiple parameters are mapped to the same slider and knobs. It undoes what works perfectly in AL-4.

The guy responded that Analog Lab V is working exactly how the Product Manager and Dev Team designed the mappings and they have chosen to assign (random) max and mins to these macros. That's INSANE. You turn the cutoff knob and some random dude decides, "NO ONE should be able to turn this knob below 40% or above 70%! If they want to do that, they'll need to use the mouse!!" It defeats the whole purpose of having Arturia controllers (or using any controllers with Arturia software) because you'll have to use the mouse to really control the parameters. Absolutely nuts. I hope they return to the way things were in AL-4 where users get to decide how much they want to change something.

Rant over.

zzz00m · Post by **zzz00m** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:28 pm

markrosoft wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:35 pm
I just picked a random preset in both to see how they'd function differently. One called "Encounter Pad" for the Matrix-12 was the first one I clicked on. In AL-4 it works perfectly. I want to change the cutoff, I turn the Pan 1 knob and on the synth the knob goes from the zero position to the full position. If I switch over to AL-V, the knob stops at about 70% on the synth no matter how much I turn the knob on the Keylab. A similar thing happens with the release. I want to make the sound tighter... so on AL-4 I lower the release slider (ch-8 on my keylab). Sure enough, it gets tighter and works perfectly. But on the AL-V if I do the same thing, it only goes down to 44 (instead of 0 in AL-V).

I have AL-4 and AL-V, plus V-Collection 8, and using the Keylab Mk II, and can confirm this behavior.

I opened up the same preset "Encounter Pad" in AL-4 & AL-V to compare them, each with the full Matrix-12 synth UI opened for edit. The filter cutoff and resonance range is limited in AL-V, but not in AL-4.

I tried a couple of other Matrix-12 patches, and this effect seems to be programmed on a "per-patch" basis by the sound designer. For example, preset "Eno B" allows the full range for the filter cutoff and resonance, as well as the attack and decay time for Env-1. But the range is limited for Env-2. And in preset "Cyberants" the filter and envelope controls are limited, except for Env-2 Decay and Sustain.

I'm not sure what the reasoning behind the change was, but I can understand that some might not welcome it, as this change should have been fully disclosed by Arturia. Maybe some product manager thought it might be nice to allow sound designers a bit more creative control over the macros?

Fyi, I did notice that you can use the macro editor in the instrument to set the filter cutoff (Brightness) and resonance (Timbre) ranges to min and max of "0.00" to "1.00". But haven't yet figured out the same for envelope ADSR. Don't know if this is possible?

Echoii · Post by **Echoii** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:53 pm

We are at 8.2 update and still nothing has changed. My hope is they revert the damage by the time AL-6 comes out, not any sooner, unfortunately.

felis · Post by **felis** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:36 pm

EDIT: I don't use it that often, so I never checked to see the different controller options as listed in the posts below.

I'm wondering if the control layout had something to do with the 'Essential' keyboard having less controls than the regular Keylabs.
Keylab essential is less expensive, so they're probably selling more of them.

zzz00m · Post by **zzz00m** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:52 pm

felis wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:36 pm
I'm wondering if it had something to do with the 'Essential' keyboard having less controls than the regular Keylabs.
Keylab essential is less expensive, so they're probably selling more of them.

Race to the bottom, LOL...

There's an AL5 update out right now, but I'm not sure what's changed. It isn't the control issue being fixed though.

No change to the control issue, I tested with the latest.

Analog Lab V
V 5.4.5

New features:

Integration of Pigments 3.5

Bug fixes:

Macros are now properly working in FL Studio

Settings are now accessible when instrument view is open

Fixed pricing display issue in the store

Keyboard settings for Pigments in Analog Lab V are now working correctly

wwjd · Post by **wwjd** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:39 am

wow. had to check this out for myself.
Yep, this is crazy stupid. No way would I ever buy a new controller for this! I'll work within these silly limitations if needed. But I rarely bother with the LAB anyway, so I guess I don't care. But, wow, what a dumb choice and I feel bad for you guys putting up with this!

syntonica · Post by **syntonica** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:08 am

I've pretty much given up on Arturia plugins. Their installs are ridiculously huge, like their new, laggy GUIs. It's painful to perform the frequent updates and to try and find a patch.

Also, there's a little 8-byte file (PkgInfo) missing from each of their AUs, causing the plugins to show as folders. I reported the issue about two years ago, explaining what was wrong and what needed to be done. Still not fixed. It's literally just adding one file back to the build script...

I noticed that I now have AL4 & 5 installed. 5 was just awful to use. Maybe I'll try 4 instead.

So, yeah, when I move to a new M1 MacBook, those plugins are not coming with me.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:28 am

Arturia gets a bum wrap. For me they are fine. They work well enough on my system and generally work and sound good. Im on a 2010 mac pro 12core 3GHz macPOS 10.14 Reaper 6. I just upgraded to V8 from V6 and have their other effects. I'm ok with them. *shrug*

zzz00m · Post by **zzz00m** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:07 pm

Arturia is one the best companies in the business, IMO!

Pigments v3.5 recent upgrade is free for existing users, and with 150 new presets! It just keeps getting better.

I have observed the macro changes made between Analog Lab 4 and V, but they don't really bother me. I kind of like them actually. And if I ever feel the need to go back to the old ways, Analog Lab 4 still works just fine! Plus I have all of the instruments in the V Collection 8.

wwjd · Post by **wwjd** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:54 am

plexuss wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:28 am Arturia gets a bum wrap. For me they are fine. They work well enough on my system and generally work and sound good. Im on a 2010 mac pro 12core 3GHz macPOS 10.14 Reaper 6. I just upgraded to V8 from V6 and have their other effects. I'm ok with them. *shrug*

On the whole, Arturia is great. Have you noticed the topic being mentioned here? It's a really bad change. Don't add limits to products, expand them.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:42 am

Forgive the basic question, but I can't see a way in Analog Lab 4 to edit the patch in the full instrument (if you own it), which is there in 5. I don't think that was introduced in 5, was it? I'm probably being blind...

Examigan · Post by **Examigan** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:51 am

After you open AL4, hover the mouse above the image of the synth on the right side and click.

AL4.jpg

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:05 am

Ah thanks Examigan.

Tis weird how the rotary controls have been reassigned in 5. All the original data must still be there - would be good to have the choice at least of the original mapping.

Examigan · Post by **Examigan** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:01 pm

I almost never really use AL4 or v5 so I was checking out some settings this morning. Were these settings always there to change the controls at the bottom?

At first it's like this:

original setting v5.jpg

I went into the settings and changed it to "Factory"

Controls.jpg

Analog Lab V vs 4 - Why have they destroyed the controls?