FL Studio's tempo/time signature handling

[>v^<^^]

Does anyone else out there find FL's handling of tempo changes and time signatures frustrating? To me this is the weakest part of FL. I use FL exclusively and love everything about it pretty much, but this is the biggest drawback in my eyes yet I don't see anyone else mention it here or on Looptalk.

I have a song where the tempo starts at 120bpm and then changes abruptly to 140bpm. Some audio clips in the 120bpm section of the song end just before the tempo change. When playback reaches the tempo change, it seems the entire song is recalculated to the new tempo on the fly. This causes the 120bpm audio clips to be processed as if the tempo was 140bpm throughout the entire song. So, the audio clips which only last 4 measures at 120bpm, now last almost 5 measures at 140bpm. What I hear is: the audio clips play as they should, then when the tempo changes I hear the last little bit of the audio clips again where there should be silence.

I'd also like to be able to switch from 4/4 to 3/4 to 5/4 or whatever within one song but of course I can't. All these limitations seem to be related. It appears that the FL Playlist is too rigid to support proper tempo/signature changes. If any measure changes, they all change. I realize this is a fundamental property of FL and would probably require a re-write of the entire app to change it (like Image Line says proper loop-recording would require).

So I guess I'd like to know if any other FL users out there would value having tempo automation and time signature changes on par with the likes of Cubase/Sonar/etc. Personally, I think this is MUCH more important than new plugins/effects as it is a basic function of any MIDI sequencer.

I realize it would be a tough thing for Image Line to do as it would be a lot of work and "time signature changes" probably isn't a huge selling point for the vast majority of users out there.

[JasonC]

I understand your frustrations, but I think you just need to recognize there are some things FL is good at, and some things it isn't. Complex prog rock (for example) with multiple time signature and tempo changes isn't something FL is good at, nor likely to get good at anytime soon. For complex arrangements, I think even the developers would recommend you look at one of the more linear sequencers.

The draw of FL for many is it's ease of use, and the simplicity of the interface when it comes to arrangement. Lots of us would be disappointed if the playlist interface was cluttered up with tools to accomodate time signature and (better) tempo changes.

In other words, if IL kept adding enough features like this, it would only be a matter of time before it was as boring and hard to use as Cubase.

On your first problem though, with the 4 measure clips changing to 5 measures and bleeding through the tempo change, I'd suggest maybe automating a volume cutoff at the tempo change to chop off the audio from the 120bpm part when it changes to 140bpm.

[Hink]

Does anyone else out there find FL's handling of tempo changes and time signatures frustrating? To me this is the weakest part of FL. I use FL exclusively and love everything about it pretty much, but this is the biggest drawback in my eyes yet I don't see anyone else mention it here or on Looptalk.

I have a song where the tempo starts at 120bpm and then changes abruptly to 140bpm. Some audio clips in the 120bpm section of the song end just before the tempo change. When playback reaches the tempo change, it seems the entire song is recalculated to the new tempo on the fly. This causes the 120bpm audio clips to be processed as if the tempo was 140bpm throughout the entire song. So, the audio clips which only last 4 measures at 120bpm, now last almost 5 measures at 140bpm. What I hear is: the audio clips play as they should, then when the tempo changes I hear the last little bit of the audio clips again where there should be silence.

I'd also like to be able to switch from 4/4 to 3/4 to 5/4 or whatever within one song but of course I can't. All these limitations seem to be related. It appears that the FL Playlist is too rigid to support proper tempo/signature changes. If any measure changes, they all change. I realize this is a fundamental property of FL and would probably require a re-write of the entire app to change it (like Image Line says proper loop-recording would require).

So I guess I'd like to know if any other FL users out there would value having tempo automation and time signature changes on par with the likes of Cubase/Sonar/etc. Personally, I think this is MUCH more important than new plugins/effects as it is a basic function of any MIDI sequencer.

I realize it would be a tough thing for Image Line to do as it would be a lot of work and "time signature changes" probably isn't a huge selling point for the vast majority of users out there.

You can automate the tempo and you can use the box in the upper left corner of the step sequencer on a per pattern basis and have them different time signatures. The new automation clips would be awesome for tempo changes as you can ramp it or make happen right away...ask me on FL and I can post screenshots if yah need it...

[videzyrah]

So I guess I'd like to know if any other FL users out there would value having tempo automation and time signature changes on par with the likes of Cubase/Sonar/etc. Personally, I think this is MUCH more important than new plugins/effects as it is a basic function of any MIDI sequencer.

I realize it would be a tough thing for Image Line to do as it would be a lot of work and "time signature changes" probably isn't a huge selling point for the vast majority of users out there.

lol. I hear ya there.
Reminds me of so many musicians who invest tons of energy into attempting to aquire more/better gear, and not nearly as much into actually learning rhythm, timing,theory, etc. Throw an odd-time signature at them and.......... well, you can pretty much forget about it.

[zircon]

Well, I don't work with audio that much, but I do constantly use tempo changes, and I've NEVER had a problem with that in FL. Also, I think most sequencers don't adequately implement time signature changes. If you're looking for that, get Finale or something and then import the complete MIDI into FL.

[Hink]

Tempo can be automated

Here's a tip, hover your cursor over the tempo window...look in the info window..on the right see that little red circle thing? That means it can be automated...if you're ever unsure if a feature can be automated this is how you can tell. Again each pattern can be a different time signature, the box in the upper left corner with the two dashes in the step sequencer is the way...then just lay your patterns out accordingly in the play list...remember if you have odd time signatures you can adjust the snap.

[Hink]

notice this is pattern 1 5/4 and in th e playlist it over laps pattern two which is 4/4



here's pattern 2 4/4 slid over to fit with 5/4 time signature.

[Hink]

and for the heck of it this is what you get if you right click on the tempo and you can automate until your hearts content

[>v^<^^]

I understand your frustrations, but I think you just need to recognize there are some things FL is good at, and some things it isn't. Complex prog rock (for example) with multiple time signature and tempo changes isn't something FL is good at, nor likely to get good at anytime soon. For complex arrangements, I think even the developers would recommend you look at one of the more linear sequencers.

Yep, this has been my point of view for a long time (I don't do prog "rock" but maybe my stuff does get a little prog at times tho ). The more I read Looptalk however, the more it seems "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", so I thought I'd squeak a little bit.

The draw of FL for many is it's ease of use, and the simplicity of the interface when it comes to arrangement. Lots of us would be disappointed if the playlist interface was cluttered up with tools to accomodate time signature and (better) tempo changes.

Again, I totally agree. Then again, it seems FL will grow no matter what happens. I'd rather see it grow by adding useful features rather than a bunch of "newbie enhancements" as Image Line calls them.

On your first problem though, with the 4 measure clips changing to 5 measures and bleeding through the tempo change, I'd suggest maybe automating a volume cutoff at the tempo change to chop off the audio from the 120bpm part when it changes to 140bpm.

Excellent advice, thank you. And thanks for taking the time to understand my problem, didn't expect that to happen so soon.

You can automate the tempo and you can use the box in the upper left corner of the step sequencer on a per pattern basis and have them different time signatures.

Yeah I know you can... automating the tempo is what was causing my problem. And I know about the "per patten length" thing. That does make it possible, but difficult when your patterns start misaligning with the playlist measure markers. Thanks for the help though.

Well, I don't work with audio that much, but I do constantly use tempo changes, and I've NEVER had a problem with that in FL.

Yeah it usually works great, especially if you don't use audio clips. My problem is the exception to the rule.

[Hink]

Yeah I know you can... automating the tempo is what was causing my problem. And I know about the "per patten length" thing. That does make it possible, but difficult when your patterns start misaligning with the playlist measure markers. Thanks for the help though.

that's what snap is for...you can ignore the scale numbers, it will be gapless and if you left click the upper left corner you should be able to do a quick quantize in the playlist.