Good Bye Reaktor, good bye NI synths

[vitocorleone123]

NI no longer seem to have the will, means, or ability to innovate or update as rapidly as before - their Golden Years, so far, are behind them. However, some of the products from those years, such as Kontakt and Replika XT, among others, are still golden (albeit maybe in tiny bricks that should be updated to be larger bricks, so maybe "tarnished gold" is a better way to describe these stand-outs). New competition means more choices, but doesn't make those products somehow worse.

There are also glimmers of hope and innovation that shine through now and then. Super 8 is simply great (albeit, again, in need of a UI update so it can be larger), for example. Massive X sounds great, though the UX is... questionable.

Then there's a lot of legacy stuff that, frankly, would hardly get used anymore if it wasn't practically given away as part of Komplete. I wish they would klean house and update their UIs to be resizeable.

Given their new "investment partners" I'd be shocked if they had a new set of Golden Years, as opposed to trying to milk everything possible via subscription and sales, only to fade away/be acquired by another company to give the investors an "out". Maybe it's different in the audio world, but that's been my experience several times over across 2 decades in tech. I hope I'm wrong as it'd be good to see NI back on top of the hill, so to speak.

[CrystalWizard]

It's been goodbye NI going on years now for me, but, certainly not goodbye NI synths. Reaktor would be the last piece of software i would get rid of. i've got some old machines running W7. With some maintenance i should be using it until at least as long as i live

[bmanic]

If I edit a Battery 4 kit, changing the battery 4 internal parameters like envelopes, FX etc I should be able to send that PRESET to a friend and it should load up instantly and perfectly because the sample data is factory. This is NOT the case right now. NI software is just too stupid to load it correctly.

I have not asked from NI support or legal about sharing of Battery presets. The NI Sound License Agreement seems to be generic covering all NI products. And Battery 4 is just a different GUI on top of Kontakt engine. So, I'm assuming similar restrictions about sharing 'Patch Only' presets apply also to Battery. Again, I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

It would be nice if Native Instruments would just give comprehensive explanation of the licensing terms.

If that is indeed the case then I am absolutely 100% selling my NI licenses. That would be an extremely idiotic (and probably impossible to actually enforce) license. What is changed is literally synth engine stuff.. heck even positioning of the kit samples is enough to not be able to share the kit properly.

No, I suspect it's just bad programming. Why on earth they'd do something like this on purpose makes no sense. Imagine having these same issues on a hardware synthesizer like Roland, Yamaha or Korg romplers. You create a preset, then share that preset file online or to collaborators and they couldn't open up the preset.

I can sort of understand these limitations with Kontakt stuff, especially if it's encrypted and 3rd party (where basically the whole engine/script is 3rd party).. those can become some pretty tricky licenses to parse and understandably so, but not for something simple like Battery or NI's own add-on Reaktor instruments where all the sample data is unencrypted and freely available.

[gentleclockdivider]

And Battery 4 is just a different GUI on top of Kontakt engine.

No , it's not .
And this is how rumours are spread by total nitwits

[bluesawsq]

And Battery 4 is just a different GUI on top of Kontakt engine.

No , it's not .
And this is how rumours are spread by total nitwits

Could you elaborate, which parts of Battery 4 engine are not based on Kontakt?

Looks like Battery was developed first and Kontakt was based on that:

Removing 3rd party format import is a consequence of Battery 4.2 being built from Kontakt 6 codebase (they're the same engine, different GUI, as it always were - Battery was actually first, from it, Kontakt grew), and K6 had the 3rd party format import already removed from the initial release.

However, the current situation is that Battery 4 engine is a subset of Kontakt engine.
And the engine here means all the synthesis and effects capabilities: groups (= cells in Battery), envelopes, filters, LFOs, modulation assignment, sample playback modes, mapping of samples to midi key/velocity ranges, voice handling, scripts (articulation, midi echo, humanize), per voice effects, instrument/master effects, routing, sample editor functions, etc.

I think it would have been insane for NI to develop two different engines with all those identical features.

[gentleclockdivider]

And Battery 4 is just a different GUI on top of Kontakt engine.

No , it's not .
And this is how rumours are spread by total nitwits

Could you elaborate, which parts of Battery 4 engine are not based on Kontakt?

Looks like Battery was developed first and Kontakt was based on that:

Removing 3rd party format import is a consequence of Battery 4.2 being built from Kontakt 6 codebase (they're the same engine, different GUI, as it always were - Battery was actually first, from it, Kontakt grew), and K6 had the 3rd party format import already removed from the initial release.

However, the current situation is that Battery 4 engine is a subset of Kontakt engine.
And the engine here means all the synthesis and effects capabilities: groups (= cells in Battery), envelopes, filters, LFOs, modulation assignment, sample playback modes, mapping of samples to midi key/velocity ranges, voice handling, scripts (articulation, midi echo, humanize), per voice effects, instrument/master effects, routing, sample editor functions, etc.

I think it would have been insane for NI to develop two different engines with all those identical features.

It's not because you assume something that you know the actual truth.
Yes , battery was released before kontakt and yes they share similar filters and effects , this just means that they share some codebase .
Lot's of synths developers share some code in their catalogue in one way or another.
As part of the framework or actual dsp effects etc.
SO keep hypothesizing all you want but don't be surprised when someone calls you out on it .

[EvilDragon]

And Battery 4 is just a different GUI on top of Kontakt engine.

No , it's not .
And this is how rumours are spread by total nitwits

Err, this time you are not correct. Battery is definitely Kontakt with different GUI. And yes, Battery came before Kontakt, and Kontakt's structure and engine is an extension of Battery 1. Fun tidbit, working title for Battery was simply "Groovebox".

They share the structure completely. In fact, you could load Battery 3 patches in Kontakt 5 perfectly. They are identical in their core. The whole engine is shared between them, literally only the GUI slapped on top and user interactions are different (and sidechain functionality of Battery which is not exposed in Kontakt for... reasons).


I'm speaking from experience btw, since I actually saw the code

[vurt]

like neo in the matrix

[machinesworking]

Err, this time you are not correct. Battery is definitely Kontakt with different GUI. And yes, Battery came before Kontakt, and Kontakt's structure and engine is an extension of Battery 1. Fun tidbit, working title for Battery was simply "Groovebox".

They share the structure completely. In fact, you could load Battery 3 patches in Kontakt 5 perfectly. They are identical in their core. The whole engine is shared between them, literally only the GUI slapped on top and user interactions are different (and sidechain functionality of Battery which is not exposed in Kontakt for... reasons).


I'm speaking from experience btw, since I actually saw the code

This begs the question as to why Kontakt has IMO the best in class lost samples search feature, and Battery, does not.

Yeah yeah, I can guess that the search feature isn't the engine, but why for the love of god and country doesn't Battery have Kontakts sample search features?

All of this bickering about sample licenses and whose engine was first would be moot if Battery could use the OS's browser search functions.

[EvilDragon]

That is a very good question indeed. Unfortunately, not one I can answer ^_^;

[machinesworking]

That is a very good question indeed. Unfortunately, not one I can answer ^_^;

To be fair, IMO pretty much every sampler and DAW out there has equally terrible built in search features, it's just that Kontakt is the king of this, it's never an issue if files are 'missing' because the Search with Spotlight features in the Mac OS version is so ridiculously good, or by folder etc.

[_leras]

No, you can't compete with them.

Hey, that's like, just your opinion, man.

Reaktor will never die!

[felis]

If Battery came first, then Kontakt is just Battery with a different GUI.

[an-electric-heart]

You're probably right actually. I have Komplete, and have it all installed, but I guess Kontakt is the only thing I really use. When I need a synth, I never reach for an N.I synth anymore... You know what, because of this thread, I think I'll un-install them.

[_leras]

Dude.. you are COMPLETELY missing my point. I don't talk about editing the actual samples, just the basic preset of the synthesizer or drum machine in question, using the factory sample.

How can this be so hard to understand? If you have factory sample content and you use that as a base for your own PRESET within Form, Scanner XT etc.. you should be able to then send that PRESET to a friend/colleague (remember, a preset does NOT contain the sample data!!!) and load up perfectly fine there.



If I edit a Battery 4 kit, changing the battery 4 internal parameters like envelopes, FX etc I should be able to send that PRESET to a friend and it should load up instantly and perfectly because the sample data is factory. This is NOT the case right now. NI software is just too stupid to load it correctly.

Can't you just save kit with samples and share the kit with samples? Or 'Shouldn't' you!

I always like to do this when I'm working on a project, I'll make sure I save the kit with the samples. This way I always have the samples with the project, even if on a differently setup machine.

I get you - like why can't you edit a factory kit to your liking and share just the kit with now snappier envelopes. My guess is it uses the file path of the sample, no the relative path to the factory library, so if two computers have different install paths - bad luck. And tbh, this happens everytime I get a new computer... This time I'll organise it right. Get me every time