Pashkuli: PMN (Plain Music Notation)

[Pashkuli]

When reading traditional notation at speed I primarily read intervals and shapes; the absolute positions and key signature/accidentals are a kind of "correction" layer of information applied on top.

Professional musicians do spend a lot of time reading notes at speed.

That is my point. Musicians have to spend a lot of time learning first to read (some even write if they compose music). Speed is irrelevant. You can see online people doing all kind of things at ridiculous speed.

My purpose here is to point out a problem (and offer my solution to it). Something most people do not even question or challenge? Because they have been taught this way and they have an exam about it next month!

[Niklashe]

Please read this! Its very important on how you, when an experienced musician, read music. You combine reading the notes with reading movements of the "dot" or jumps by reading intervals. Especially reading intervals are convenient in the traditional notation system.

And you seams to think that everyone reads piano rolls nowdays? So if you want to learn how to play the flute its common to use piano rolls? Remember that it will be your job to translate your new notation system to every known instrument;)

Good luck!

When reading traditional notation at speed I primarily read intervals and shapes; the absolute positions and key signature/accidentals are a kind of "correction" layer of information applied on top. But to play or sing a run of notes I do not really parse all the names; I see the overall shape, see that there are no accidentals, and perform a run that easily comes from scale practice.

I'm sure that there's room for improvement in traditional notation, but I think this format will not be suitable in that application. Professional musicians do spend a lot of time reading notes at speed.

Perhaps for long pieces performed slowly, the compactness of this notation will be useful.

[Niklashe]

I think you misunderstood what imrae wrote. Musicians are reading the notes as they perform. If the music is fast its impossible to see every symbol (like reading which note every dot is in traditional notation) and at the same time play, you have to have another strategy.

How will your symbols make this easy? Say if you play an instrument where you have to have the score placed a bit away from you. How large must the score be then to be able to see every symbol?

[Pashkuli]

You combine reading the notes with reading movements of the "dot" or jumps by reading intervals. Especially reading intervals are convenient in the traditional notation system.

And you seams to think that everyone reads piano rolls nowadays?

Remember that it will be your job to translate your new notation system to every known instrument;)

Not sure what you mean by moving a dot. If you mean the dot as a replacement of a renova ("octave") then I must clarify that this is only when one note has to be shown as an example. It is not like that for every note in the PMN score. It would be insane otherwise... and actually it is not needed.
Because most of the melodies and chords on PMN will take up 3 rows (in general).
For old complex classical music maybe 5 rows of notehead symbols.

No, I made it clear that no one reads piano rolls in such a way. But most "non-educated" musicians use the MIDI-roll (as piano layout for a background that is) to write music, although they might not even play piano at all. But hey get used to it, because what other choice do they have? Tha old notation? I doubt it.

The notation I propose is actually a generalised tablature and can be assigned to any existing instrument, including a big set of drums and cymbals, percussion or whatever new instrument there is... also microtonal (with some modifications on the note symbols).
It does not have to refer to a piano at all... although it is evident that the noteheads have been arranged in a way, that represent more or less the standard piano layout.

[gaggle of hermits]

I think you misunderstood what imrae wrote. Musicians are reading the notes as they perform. If the music is fast its impossible to see every symbol (like reading which note every dot is in traditional notation) and at the same time play, you have to have another strategy.

to add to that, the big advantage of conventional notation over this proposed system is that it's very easy to see the shape of lines and chord types at a glance. Even if you're hitting the wrong precise note, you can see instantly arpeggios and the like. when people are sight-reading they generally aren't parsing the notation as individual symbols but breaking the music into chunks of recognisable patterns. this breaks down a bit when you get into atonal styles that are less predictable, but that just involves some more time in studying the score.

I'm not sure there's much point in trying to reinvent this particular wheel. if it were my choice, I'd look at how to invent a notation that works for microtonal or at least non-12tet music but which could be applied to regular 12tet.

the OP's proposal also has the problem that it's going to be a pain in the arse to write without a computer: too many fiddly symbols to get wrong. look at the scribblings paper-and-pen composers make before the scores are engraved.

[Pashkuli]

Musicians are reading the notes as they perform. If the music is fast its impossible to see every symbol (like reading which note every dot is in traditional notation) and at the same time play, you have to have another strategy.

Say if you play an instrument where you have to have the score placed a bit away from you. How large must the score be then to be able to see every symbol?

You have missed the detail\quote that musicians spent a lot of time learning how to read old notation. A lot of time! Most (educated piano players) even from as little as 4 years old.

Placing a score away or close is personal preference. My notation can be read as a normal textbook.
Well, the words might shift to the next adjacent row, but will be plain and visible... and non-ambiguous!

[shawshawraw]

I think this notation is quite cumbersome vertically. Can you transcribe this passage?

[Pashkuli]

It's very easy to see the shape of lines and chord types at a glance. Even if you're hitting the wrong precise note, you can see instantly arpeggios and the like.

Breaking the music into chunks of recognisable patterns. this breaks down a bit when you get into atonal styles that are less predictable, but that just involves some more time in studying the score.

Look at the scribblings paper-and-pen composers make before the scores are engraved.

It is easy, especially after you have done it hundreds of times.
A wise man once said, that everything is easy, once you know how to do it in practice.

Again my notation has inambiguous representation of exactly matching patterns.
The standard notation has some patterns that appear to be the same, but are not: change of key, accidentals, misread ledger lines. People just get used to its quirks.

Yes, I can barely understand old manuscript drafts in a spoken language, let alone the scribbles of composers! Too many lines, dots misplaced a bit (but we know what the composer meant when was drunk or ill, etc.).

Certainly, writing different noteheads requires a bit of an effort with a pen.
By the way most of the famous composers struggled to write the G-clef symbol (and most people do). Funny fact.

[Pashkuli]

I think this notation is quite cumbersome vertically. Can you transcribe this passage?

Oh, that is something interesting.
Could please tell me which music (name, opus, etc.) is this, so I can search\find its midi-file, is it form a .pdf maybe? That .pdf would be nice as well.

I have a mock-up using Synthesia representation of my notation, so it would be easier that way: to run the midi-file.

[shawshawraw]

Could please tell me which music (name, opus, etc.) is this, so I can search\find its midi-file, is it form a .pdf maybe? That .pdf would be nice as well.

It comes from "Berklee Jazz Standards for Solo Piano", song 10 "Body and Soul" (page 47). I don't think there's a digital version already... I just snapped a photo from my phone.

[shawshawraw]

I have a mock-up using Synthesia representation of my notation, so it would be easier that way: to run the midi-file.

Debussy's "La fille aux cheveux de lin" has a similar passage you can use:

[Pashkuli]

@shawshawraw
Thanks for the info. Will try to track it down. Debussy would be easier to find, I suppose.
I had no idea it looked so frightening. But he is was a troubled soul anyway. Always a blessing hearing "Cliar de Lune" (3rd, "Suite bergamasque").

Will have to leave it for the next year though... Maybe will try later or early in 2022.

[gaggle of hermits]

By the way most of the famous composers struggled to write the G-clef symbol (and most people do). Funny fact.

and yet everyone knows what they mean because it doesn't matter just as long as it doesn't look like the other common clefs. can you say the same for the potential confusion between the fruit segments and hearts in yours when someone's writing in a hurry?

[gaggle of hermits]

I have a mock-up using Synthesia representation of my notation, so it would be easier that way: to run the midi-file.

why do you find this passage hard to render using your approach? it's a run of single notes (more or less) followed by a run the other way using chords.

personally, I can see why this is going to be tough using your approach (and why it's going to be even tougher to read as a grouped of almost-planed chords), but you treating this as scary really isn't selling your system.

[Pashkuli]

Can you say the same for the potential confusion between the fruit segments and hearts in yours when someone's writing in a hurry?

See that is the flexibility of PMN.
No one forces you to use noteheads. You can use the letters as if you were to write a letter (pardon the pun) to your beloved one.
Of course we all know how legible professional medical personnel can write certain prescriptions...
But that is why they are pros. They would know. Otherwise the patient in need would be suffering still.

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