KVR Audio

NinjaToon · Post by **NinjaToon** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:41 pm

plexuss wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:33 pm
NinjaToon wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:50 pm I like dirt.
Careful. Dirt can turn into bad sounding audio very quickly without it being noticed.

No saturation anywhere. The only way to achieve this level of clarity (not EDM):

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/th ... lmeth-thee

One mans clean is another mans thin? Not my place to criticize your decisions just saying that I like dirt.

briefcasemanx · Post by **briefcasemanx** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:14 pm

I've just completely mangled the masterbuss with hot garbage. Try just doing whatever you personally think sounds cool instead of trying to figure out other people's conventions. Your music will sound more unique if you spend less time chasing other people's individuality and finding your own.

El°HYM · Post by **El°HYM** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:16 pm

We should always keep in mind that we are filling all kinds of the musical spectrum in here. So even we might use the same words, those could have totally different meaning for each of us.

briefcasemanx · Post by **briefcasemanx** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:17 pm

plexuss wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:33 pm
NinjaToon wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:50 pm I like dirt.
Careful. Dirt can turn into bad sounding audio very quickly without it being noticed.

No saturation anywhere. The only way to achieve this level of clarity (not EDM):

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/th ... lmeth-thee

I don't think this is a mindblowing level of clarity and you could easily get this sort of clarity or better while using saturation.

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:29 pm

The Vertigo Sound VSM mix satellite is saturation processor meant for Mastering. And yes even Mastering engineers that work with EDM use it.

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:07 pm

briefcasemanx wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:17 pm
plexuss wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:33 pm
NinjaToon wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:50 pm I like dirt.
Careful. Dirt can turn into bad sounding audio very quickly without it being noticed.

No saturation anywhere. The only way to achieve this level of clarity (not EDM):

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/th ... lmeth-thee
I don't think this is a mindblowing level of clarity and you could easily get this sort of clarity or better while using saturation.

Indeed. Clarity is a combination of many decisions made including quality of recordings/sounds, arrangement (a biggie!), suitable use of effects, sensitive use of eq etc etc.

Like any other effect/process, saturation can ruin something if overdone, but to say the only way to achieve mix clarity is not to use it is a bit daft.

Everything in its place and all that...moderation!

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:11 pm

El°HYM wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:16 pm We should always keep in mind that we are filling all kinds of the musical spectrum in here. So even we might use the same words, those could have totally different meaning for each of us.

love basinski

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:16 pm

I actually had a comment on something of mine regarding 'such a clear bass' tone (low brass), while the reality of that voice involved a send to a cabinet model, a quite saturated tone, just beefy.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:20 pm

I never color the whole program with something like that, I do a lot of things individually but the master out has nothing on it save an overload protector in a limiter that doesn't change the gain structure. I rarely even treat anything in terms of large groups/buses.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:43 am

Great guys. How about you post your work examples demonstrating produciton clarity using saturation on the master. I am eager to hear and learn from you!

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:05 am

plexuss wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:43 am Great guys. How about you post your work examples demonstrating produciton clarity using saturation on the master. I am eager to hear and learn from you!

No problem. This is quite a 'thick' and saturated mix in given the song and arrangement, but the top end (12 string acoustic, drums, percussion) still cuts through nicely and the hewge overdriven 808 kick isn't farting the track.

https://donkeyt.bandcamp.com/track/the- ... to-the-sea

It's TB Reelbus V3 on the master, peaking at about 2 on the meter.

rb3a.jpg

Gives it a bit of a sheen (emphasis skewed to the HF) and also a bit more cohesion as a whole.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:40 am

donkey tugger wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:05 am
plexuss wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:43 am Great guys. How about you post your work examples demonstrating produciton clarity using saturation on the master. I am eager to hear and learn from you!
No problem. This is quite a 'thick' and saturated mix in given the song and arrangement, but the top end (12 string acoustic, drums, percussion) still cuts through nicely and the hewge overdriven 808 kick isn't farting the track.
https://donkeyt.bandcamp.com/track/the- ... to-the-sea
It's TB Reelbus V3 on the master, peaking at about 2 on the meter. Gives it a bit of a sheen (emphasis skewed to the HF) and also a bit more cohesion as a whole.

Thanks: my take: although it start out clean sounding, when everything kicks in there is a dramatic reduciton of sound quality and transient dynamics and a harsh or brittlness in the upper midrange. all contributing to a lack of clarity. Unsure if this is caused by "saturation" but it's the kind of issue I was referring to. YMMV

nineofkings · Post by **nineofkings** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:53 am

It’s partly tough cause the word “clarity” can refer to a few different things. For example:

1. Details in both quiet and loud passages
2. Shiny mid-to-high frequencies
3. Un-clipped transients
4. Scooped lows/no “mud”

Saturation can help with 1-2, but not 3-4. So YMMV depending on which quality you’re aiming for I guess.

For the record, I use Airwindows ToTape on the master quite a lot, not to sound “analog” whatever that means, but just because the way it deals with transients seems pleasing where it’s audible and inconspicuous where it isn’t audible. It helps things sound cohesive and a bit louder without needing to hard-clip or limit things to shit.

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:34 am

plexuss wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:40 am YMMV

Indeed. I think our philosophies on what constitutes a good mix are probably very different.

A song like this needs a certain amount of (for want of a better term) bollocks..

; it wouldn't work half as well with a more thin sounding or 'neutral' type of mix. The clarity is there in that the instruments are clear, but the tape compression and (deliberate, hence the HF emphasis) saturation 'smearing' to give an added cohesion and energy to in essence assist in trying to convey the power of a band playing together, rather than a load of stuff recorded separately.

Where you say 'harsh', I would say 'having bite'. Not sure if you've done much work with indie guitars?

Anyway, interesting debate. Not ever opinions I'd heard on that mix before, but you obviously do have a decent level of competence, so I'm not trying to dismiss your opinion, just saying that it does need to be 'horses for courses', and in my view the approach I've taken works nicely here.

pixel85 · Post by **pixel85** » Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:47 am

So it took 3 pages to go from "saturation for EDM music" to "clarity in non-EDM music" and fight over who has the ultimate right to determine what term "clarity in music" means

I can just add that saying that "no saturation" only allows for "that kind of clarity" is extremely bold.
I would say that there are millions of tracks that were recorded to tape and have a lot of "that kind of clarity". But maybe all those mixing and mastering engineers are all wrong and only Plexxus know how to "do it right"

Saturation on the master