Pashkuli: PMN (Plain Music Notation)

[Pashkuli]

first rule of the Dunning-Kruger Club is you don't know you're in it

Ok. This has nothing to do with the notation as a topic.
Many weak people with nothing useful to discuss, diverse to such off-topics about categorising almost on a personal level.
Seems more like you are in the Medieval Mindset Club.

Do you see a problem for each of the 12 notes (in 12-TET) to have its own name, letter, notehead?
If yes, why would that be?

[imrae]

Yes, the problem is that it is difficult to read at speed, which is one of the most essential functions of sheet music. It appears that you do not have sufficient experience rehearsing and performing with sheet music to understand this.

That's not a medieval mindset, it's a modern orchestral mindset.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Edit: N/m. OP seems to be sweating enough already, and I wish everybody a “Happy” New Year, so I will skip the mission.

[mladi]

Yes, the problem is that it is difficult to read at speed, which is one of the most essential functions of sheet music. It appears that you do not have sufficient experience rehearsing and performing with sheet music to understand this.

That's not a medieval mindset, it's a modern orchestral mindset.

Very true and already mentioned without any reaction from OP.
I'm afraid instead he'll post the crotchet again and ask which note it is.

[fmr]

Most of the notes or beams on the screenshot are illegible. This one is not even a challenge.

Anyone minimally proficient at reading scores is able to read that. And play it.

You know. most people don't need to read EVERY note, the same way you don't read EVERY LETTER when you are reading a book/text. They read musical cells and musical phrases. If you understand notation, you immediately recognize when it is a scale, or an arpeggio (or a chord, for that matter). Then, it's just a matter of read the first note, and play from it. And it's dead easy to know when notes go up or go down.

[Pashkuli]

Yes, the problem is that it is difficult to read at speed.

Are you telling us you have difficulties reading letters\glyphs?
So how did you graduated from school then?

It appears that you do not have sufficient experience rehearsing and performing with sheet music to understand this.

Thank God, for that indeed. I did not have time for that... because I wanted to play music.
You see, there was this thing called folk music, that has been passed from centuries before even a Church was established. My grandfather (who was blind) learned to play drums and clarinet in his teenage years.

Please, understand, that this is a different approach to write\read music.
It is in total conflict with the old, church way of writing music.
As such it will be idiotic to hold me responsible for not learning that old system.

There always has been "other music", passed through generations of musicians using other methods of conservation ("recording"). Talking about the ancient times and not only about Europe and its Dark ages, you know.
Not so difficult to comprehend, or is it?

[Pashkuli]

They read musical cells and musical phrases. If you understand notation, you immediately recognize when it is a scale, or an arpeggio (or a chord, for that matter). Then, it's just a matter of read the first note, and play from it. And it's dead easy to know when notes go up or go down.

You know what they say... practice makes perfect.
People around the world read and write from left to right, right to left, top to bottom.
I can read Latin, Cyrillic, Greek, some basic chinese characters.

You spend time learning and practicing. For example when a I see arabic writing, I say "what is that gibberish". An arab person would say "What do you mean, it is plain and simple do read.".

Same by the way when in medieval times (just before Europe enters its Renaissance) the korean emperor decided to create the Hangul system, as opposition to chinese and japanese writing. Today they prefer the horizontal writing though.
That is what PMN also offers for Music: new system\language

12 notes = 12 noteheads
Each has its own weight, equal and non-discriminative to each other. No interval reference to a special case of a mode, when writing music. No need for that as we have plenty of different instruments, which do not have white\black keys.
Also I have designed uniform piano keyboard, no black "accidentals" in it.

[Farnaby]

I understand that you may not be proficient in traditional notation, however that means you can't fully appreciate its pros and cons. From comments above it is also clear that for all its imperfections traditional notation contains some subtleties both for performers and writers that you need to be aware of when designing a new system.

I do take your point that people well versed in tradition would have a steep learning curve in adapting to something new, and are inevitably resistant, but you need to show much clearer benefits before they would bother investing the time to do so.

You may be trying to solve the wrong problem - assuming there is any problem at all.

Also if you can't easily transcribe from old to new on paper (e.g. based on the challenges presented earlier in this thread) then you have anther difficulty.

[Farnaby]

Also I have designed uniform piano keyboard, no black "accidentals" in it.

Crikey, you really do believe in taking on the world!

[Pashkuli]

To avoid any confrontation on personal level, as that jancivil person tried to diverse the topic into some psychological nonsense...

Step back and out of the "medieval mindset" of conforming to educational and indoctrinated status quo and look at it from a musical stand point of view.

So, with that said...
Imagine you have a musician who has the so called "perfect pitch" (technically such "perfect" does not exist, as it also refers to some root tuning in Hz) or rather "perfect interval pitch".
Such individuals can recognise and match musical tones almost instantaneously.
They recognise all the 12 pitches, also in their renova (ok, "octave").

Now imagine that person being blind. How does that person "see" and "read" notes?
Do they need an up-down graphical representation of pitch, or rather do they "know" the 12 pitches?

All I am offering is a visual representation of the so called "perfect pitch".
So any musician can "learn" it and read\write with it.

[Pashkuli]

Crikey, you really do believe in taking on the world!

Blimey, no. That was your opinion though. And I respect it.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

What speaks most loudly here is that the OP has refuted the last two challenges to prove the translatability of his system with more complex sheets. Well, in my world as a researcher, everything someone claims without providing proof when asked for is legal to consider as sheer BS, from which you’d move on to more interesting and testable hypotheses. And surely, a patronizing attitude combined with no evidence is worth a laugh and “not passed” grade only.

[Pashkuli]

What speaks most loudly here is that the OP has refuted the last two challenges to prove the translatability of his system with more complex sheets. Well, in my world as a researcher, everything someone claims without providing proof when asked for it is legal to consider as sheer BS, from which you’d move on to more interesting and testable hypotheses. And surely, a patronizing attitude combined with no evidence is worth a laugh and “not passed” grade only.

The thing is, I have much more important things to do (e.g. learn and develop JavaScript app of the proposed notation), than having to "prove" on demand, something that is not even going to "prove" anything to already biased audience.

I said I will do it at some point. But really, I have to learn how to code now.
A month ago I learned how to design font (typeface for PMN), because it will be needed for the JavaScript app in the browser (some embedded variant as WOFF format = basically variant of OTF or TTF with metadata and compression supported by most internet browsers). In small steps... to the giant leap for mankind.

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[TribeOfHǫfuð]

The thing is, I have much more important things to do (e.g. learn and develop JavaScript app of the proposed notation), than having to "prove" on demand, something that is not even going to "prove" anything to already biased audience

You didn´t get it?

in my world as a researcher, everything someone claims without providing proof when asked for it is legal to consider as sheer BS,

"Hey can I test the vacuum cleaner you are promoting?"

"No, I do not have time for tests, it works better than anything else, take my word for it or remain a brainwashed idiot".

Sure, mate, that will kick off the revolution

[Pashkuli]

Sure, mate, that will kick off the revolution

It's been a pleasure. Stay tuned, as I might get some time in the following days to transcribe that Debussy's excerpt. After all he is one of my favourite composers.

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