Pashkuli: PMN (Plain Music Notation)

[gaggle of hermits]

Check N__K's post here: viewtopic.php?p=8226669#p8226669 It's a similar semitone figure-based stack notation.

btw, C-E-G-B-D = CMaj7/9, C-E-G-Bb-D = C9

7°(0,5,7) - 8°(0,2,7) - 0°(0,3,5,7)
those digits with degree symbols, not sure what they mean: short way of the ones in parenthesis maybe?

the linked post actually explains them so I don’t get why you’re confused. they are scale-degree indicators for the chord root assuming a 12-note scale.

[Pashkuli]

@gaggle of hermits
Ah, got it. A bit confusing, because this degree symbol ° is used to some diminished or half-diminished chords or arpeggios.
So I got a bit puzzled.

@fmr
You do not get it, do you?
I wrote it to point out the fact that "standard" chord notation (outside of a score with a stave), does not explicitly tells you anything about the voicing of the concerned chord. Some use Roman numerals but then you have to know the sequence of each inversion behind each roman numeral... too many and unnecessary annotations.

[jancivil]

Didn't anyone notice what happened here? It demonstrated what the best way is to let music travel through space and time. Just record it as a midi file.

Because that is what notation is for: let music pass through time & space. You don't need pen & paper today. Just recording it is enough to play it again and again.

That is true. MIDI files, only if recorded by human performance can record enough nuances regarding the composer\player intention when writing and performing their piece.

More opinion pulled straight from ass. "Only if recorded by human performance"
Why? MIDI is what it is. A human performance recorded as MIDI is as limited to MIDI as anything constructed in MIDI. Now, one's chances of a MIDI that isn't recording a viable human performance getting it together otherwise would tend to be low if they haven't tons of experience.
Here's a virtuoso performance:

Niveau 8 B

Here's a little bit of it in the piano roll:

excerpt midi.jpg

MIDI is how it was done. Pencil tool in Cubase Key Editor. In this case, there is no score as an intermediary. MIDI like this is superior by far to notating it and saving that to a .mid file, because of a couple of factors. There is more nuance than a score captures, period. This would be rather like the 'this is a mess' excerpt to read, but worse if I wanted the timing to convey sufficiently, there would be a lot of markup language. If I wanted someone else to play it I would work with those tools, but their performance is out of my control. (It's not cut and dried; the Chopin, anything romantic with rubato is going to be different from each individual 'interpreting' it.) That file and this file have different jobs.

I'm a composer; this is me getting an ideal performance of my idea by drawing it with a pencil. Because I have the understanding and experience to know what to do. This is reality. This is what proof of concept looks like.
You can't imagine it.
You don't know what you're talking about, your conception of the use of MIDI doesn't seem a lot different than your concept of the use of notation. You're just utterly bullshitting us. This is not the place to pretend to be an expert.
It still astonishes me that people come to a forum regarding known technique, I mean in a technical language that they don't really have, to posture like they're way up above it all. "Why ignorance fails to recognize itself" is a necessary response.

You want a seriously simplistic visual language, it has to apply to seriously simple examples. You can't reduce a number to a lower number by the strength of your objection to it being more complex, but that is certainly the exercise here.

[jancivil]

Most young people would use the MIDI-roll inside modern DAWs or tablature tailored software.

I'm far from the greatest sight-reader, but even I find regular music notation way quicker to parse than midi piano roll. more than four notes in a vertical group and it all becomes a blur.

Me too.

Most young people would do WHAT by "the MIDI-roll"? Most young people I'm exposed to are highly interested in advanced technique and follow Jacob Collier and stuff like that. And fully get that notation is where theory is studied, from the get-go.
This is another sign of a thoroughgoing ignorance, posturing with an ad populum assertion; you don't know most young people. It's most people you're aware of that think at your level, quelle surprise. You don't have the self-critique capacity to not argue fallacies known to everyone, 'most young people' is there strictly because it suits your notion.

Then you contradict this gesture entirely by admitting that basically no one reads MIDI.
If someone is to play the Chopin in the original post, they're going to need to see that, and that's the end of the story.
You have not superseded that, there is nothing there that improves the situation of getting that piece to the audience (this requires evidence: the ball never left your court). You're doing this and that as deflection. You're going to meet this resistance anywhere there are people that understand the problem. You really don't.

[Pashkuli]

@jancivil
your midi sounds as if has been mapped with the wrong MIDI soundfont.
At least to me it sounds like that. Maybe if those quirky drums have been mapped to the same instrument or phonic one, not a percussive one. Just sounds out of context as it is now.
Otherwise the MIDI-roll looks ok. Though the "pedals" seems a bit abrupt. Maybe it is the controller on\off or you have edited them manually like that.

[Pashkuli]

Most young people will compose and record using the MIDI-roll.

1. it is easier to switch between instruments
2. it is easier to turn on the function to see underlying MIDI events of parallel instrument lines
3. it is easier to edit dynamics and other parameters of the used sound

Let me check... even that person you mentioned Jacob Collies does it. Go to about 14:50 min.

[Pashkuli]

@jancivil
go through all that 3+ hour recording and composing session of this musician or instructor, maybe online lesson to an audience.
Maybe at the end he will show the score notation... I do not know. No time to watch the whole 3+ hours.

[fmr]

@fmr
You do not get it, do you?
I wrote it to point out the fact that "standard" chord notation (outside of a score with a stave), does not explicitly tells you anything about the voicing of the concerned chord. Some use Roman numerals but then you have to know the sequence of each inversion behind each roman numeral... too many and unnecessary annotations.

There isn't any "standard" chord notation. There are "plenty" of them, but none is a "standard". There is only one notation, the traditional score notation, which shows you anything/everything.

Then you have figured chord systems (the first ones dating back from the baroque), which only tell you which chord and which position (bass note) you are supposed to play. The voicing is a matter of taste, and music context. Something left to the musician, since that's supposed to be improvised.

Then you have other figured systems, which are supposed to help in musical analysis. Nothing of that is "notation".

[jancivil]

Yeah, as far as standard chord notation, it isn't notation. For lead sheets for pop music, fake books for jazz, there are conventions used, not everyone uses the same ones.

chord symbols.jpeg

...

figured bass comes in during the baroque, which do reveal the voicing as relates to the bass.
There is nothing that replaces a score for giving the actual positions/tessitura and so forth I'm aware of.
Wait, what's the argument? In the OP we're given a lot of non-musical symbols somebody made up on a single horizontal level, for a nearly 3-octave arpeggio. While the visual given that's supposed to be corrected as though problematic reveals all immediately to literate musicians.

If there's a use met, those of us who have, in reality, learned various ways to proceed are supposed as challenged per se to do that because no one is buying this? How childish is that.

Here we see nothing affirming the reason for all this, it's supposedly that standard notation has some problem, which has not actually been shown. We get someone apparently intellectually incurious reacting childishly to things beyond their ken.

[Hink]

"figured bass comes in during the baroque"

yah just wrapped up the entire thread...if it aint baroque dont fix it

[jancivil]

it's a solution desperately seeking a problem

[nix808]

this one's for Vurt particular:-

i can see the music_small.png

Pashkuli- imo ur a rocker,
what a fine art to devise

needs us I all methods of notation,
room for more imo

[jancivil]

Check N__K's post here: viewtopic.php?p=8226669#p8226669 It's a similar semitone figure-based stack notation.

btw, C-E-G-B-D = CMaj7/9, C-E-G-Bb-D = C9

7°(0,5,7) - 8°(0,2,7) - 0°(0,3,5,7)
those digits with degree symbols, not sure what they mean: short way of the ones in parenthesis maybe?

the linked post actually explains them so I don’t get why you’re confused. they are scale-degree indicators for the chord root assuming a 12-note scale.

It would take a moment to think about, isn't it.

This should not be brought in, this was someone else posturing hard to seem more advanced than the discussion.
That kind of analysis is not meeting a real need talking about tertial constructs that are easily understood with the tools extant since forever.
No, "the linked post" there explains something of zero relevance, the idea IS NOT "scale-degree indicators for the chord root", we already do that just fine with letter names and notes on a stave.

The need met by pitch-class analysis occurs with dodecaphonic serialism. Analyzing eg., Webern's use of 12 tone rows and the subsets within it. And the reason for 0 is_not roots of simple chords, it has a specific application; to begin with there is no "1" as in tonal music. It is instructive, however, of a system that superseded an earlier system meeting a particular need and point in analysis. I went into it in one of those threads, I'm not going to do all that here.

[fmr]

"figured bass comes in during the baroque"
if it aint baroque dont fix it

Well caught

[BertKoor]

@nix808: I see splattering hihats at the top, rounded string pads, saw tooth base line and phat base kicks at the bottom. Will sound ace on the dance floor.