Wotja 22 - Generative Music App & Plug-in Host (Free, Pro; AUv3 / VST3)

[impete]

1. I confirmed the Wotja 22 VST3 plugin 44.1KHz sample rate limitation using a few other DAWs, so that appears to be true across the board, at least on Windows.
2. The Wotja 22 VST3 plugin unresponsiveness that I experienced is limited to Cakewalk by BandLab. Reaper, Ableton, and Studio One ran it just fine.

OK, that is interesting! My two test DAWs here are Cakewalk and Reaper, and I've not - yet - seen problems with either...!

Note: I found that the Wotja 22 VST3 plugin will generate sound regardless of the host transport status. For me the play button in Wotja operated independently of the host. So far, I'm unable to tempo sync with the host. I probably just need to read the manual! Ha!

Just drive Wotja with the DAW start/stop button. The internal one with Wotja is useful, but is confusing people (it doesn't remote control the DAW). We need to think further about this, but we have a lot of other stuff to look at...

Otherwise, all is good here! Loving it!

Thank you very much!

[aMUSEd]

Is the "Macro Osc" based on Braids?

[zzz00m]

@impete and @zzz00m

I was just about to post this when I saw zzz00m's results which are different to mine. Anyway, maybe some other things at play here. @zzz00m did you have the Wotja UI open for all of these tests?

Yes, Wotja UI was open on all tests. Only Cakewalk had the Wotja UI lag bad enough to require me to manually crash the DAW to recover. In Studio One I had some minimal lag in closing the Wotja GUI window, but no crash. Although the Studio One GUI freezes up during playback while the Wotja GUI is open.

Tested Wotja 22 Pro on Windows 10 Pro 21H2, with these DAWs:

Ableton Live Suite 11.0.12: No transport sync, MIDI routing to another track/instrument is OK.
Cakewalk by BandLab 2021.12: No transport sync, MIDI routing to another track/instrument is OK.
Reaper 6.36: No transport sync, MIDI routing to another track/instrument is OK.
Studio One 5 Pro 5.4.1: DAW transport sync here is OK! But no MIDI routing to another track/instrument. MIDI routing is simple in this DAW. If an instrument supports MIDI output, it is available as a MIDI input selection for any other instrument track.
Tracktion Waveform Pro 11.5.18: No transport sync, no MIDI routing to another track/instrument.

[zzz00m]

Note: I found that the Wotja 22 VST3 plugin will generate sound regardless of the host transport status. For me the play button in Wotja operated independently of the host. So far, I'm unable to tempo sync with the host. I probably just need to read the manual! Ha!

Just drive Wotja with the DAW start/stop button. The internal one with Wotja is useful, but is confusing people (it doesn't remote control the DAW). We need to think further about this, but we have a lot of other stuff to look at...

Thanks! As you can see in the test report in my previous post, Studio One is the only DAW that I had any luck at all with using the DAW start/stop button for Wotja.

[Musical Gym]

FWIW, I've been told that the following VST plug-ins currently cause Wotja to crash while scanning:

IKM AmpliTube 4
Soundspot Union

if anybody knows of any more, do please let me know.

Pete

I think it may have had a problem with Surge.

[UncleAge]

My first impressions are that it is a very ambitious app. And by that I mean it is trying to cover a lot of ground by not only providing a musical environment to create but also an environment to deliver audio and video content. I tried using the standalone with mixed results. I switched to the VST3.

I have not had an issue with the VST3 yet. None. Please keep in mind that I am using the midi out only. I am not using any internal sound sources and I have no use for anything but the generative engine(s).

fwiw... I came across the downloadable pdf for version 21 and that answered a lot of questions. Maybe they are on the main site for version 22 but I could not find it. Things like what the Phrasing parameters do or the Articulations. I'm solid now. I hope others get their issues addressed soon. It's a somewhat fun plugin to use once it works for you and you get your head wrapped around the adjustments.

btw...Win 10/ Bitwig 4.1.2

[UncleAge]

Possible bug
VST3 mode: After removing the sound generators and fx from every group in the diagram the app will still output audio. It is not consistent across cells. In fact usually only one cell in the mix will have this issue. The workaround so far is to reduce the mix of the offending cell down to zero or under Settings/Audio Midi+ I can deselect WAE for Sounds & FX and Hosted Plugins. btw, no plugins are hosted when this occurs.

Not a showstopper for me as the midi out continues to work and that's the part I am most interested in using.

[wasi]

Note: I found that the Wotja 22 VST3 plugin will generate sound regardless of the host transport status. For me the play button in Wotja operated independently of the host. So far, I'm unable to tempo sync with the host. I probably just need to read the manual! Ha!

Just drive Wotja with the DAW start/stop button. The internal one with Wotja is useful, but is confusing people (it doesn't remote control the DAW). We need to think further about this, but we have a lot of other stuff to look at...

To me that's expected behavior and I find it very intuitive. A lot of plugins have a play button of some kind that doesn't control the daw. Maybe just a tool tip to explain it?

[Banquet]

I nearly pre-ordered this a few weeks ago, but am glad I didn't. I use Cubase on a Mac and as far as I can see there's no VST hosting support on Mac and it won't load as a VST in a DAW on a Mac either?

Hi! Yes, that is right. We support Apple's AUv3 format on iOS and macOS, and VST3 on Windows.

Apps distributed via Apple's stores have various restrictions, as they're running as Sandboxed apps.

Best wishes, Pete

Thanks Pete... I went ahead and bought it anyway as I thought i would still be useful to have access to the AUv3 plugins. However, the only plugins it detected that worked were the Korg Gadgets (but it loads the whole gadget software, not the just AU, so that's really no use either) - clicking on the list of failed plugins, I get the list below... which basically means, as far as I can see, it doesn't really work with AU format either... is that right? In which case, the advertised new features of loading as a VST and being a VST/AU host do not actually exist if you're on a MAC?

The following plug-ins failed because they need to have 'sandboxSafe' set; please contact the manufacturer(s). See also

https://intermorphic.com/help/#faq-plugins-sandboxSafe

Model 15 (wrapped)
TAL U-No-LX-V2
Repro-5
Repro-1
Sylenth1
Groove Agent
Aparillo
Retrologue
Heartbeat
Padshop
HALion Sonic SE
Modular
Groove Agent SE
Hive
ENGINE
SINE Player
Serum
Hainbach - Landfill Totems
Wurli V2
VOX Continental V2
Voltage Modular
UVIWorkstation
B-3 V2
Chromaphone 2
Synclavier V
Stage-73 V
Solina V2
SynthMaster 2.9 Instrument
LABS
Scaler 2
BBC Symphony Orchestra
Synthi V
ZebraHZ
Zebralette
Zebra2
Rapid Demo
Pianoteq 6 STAGE
PercX
Piano V2
Phobos
Prophet V3
Obsession
SEM V2
Microtonic Multi
Microtonic
Reaktor 6
Komplete Kontrol
Kontakt
Matrix-12 V2
Modular V3
Mellotron V
Mini V3
Lekko
Legend
Pigments
WAVESTATION
MS-20
MonoPoly
Jup-8 V3
HY-POLY
Geist2
Originals - Epic Strings
Falcon
Farfisa V
Eric Whitacre Choir Evo Grid
Eric Whitacre Choir
Analog Rytm
DX7 V
Dust
Diva
DUNE 3
CZ V
Clavinet V
Originals - Intimate Strings
CS-80 V3
CMI V
Blisko Viola
Buchla Easel V
Blue2
Arp Odyssey
Omnisphere
Analog Lab V
Analog Lab 4
ARP 2600 V3
Soundpaint
Korg Kronos v3.1
Numerology AUMX
Stochas
ScalerControl 2
Reaktor 6 MIDIFX
HY-MPS2
HY-SEQ16x3v2
Model 15 AudioBridge Insert (wrapped)
Model 15 AudioBridge Trunk (wrapped)
Satin
ZRev
Modular FX
Voltage Modular FX
Tape MELLO-FI
SynthMaster 2.9 Effect
ShimmerVerb
ScalerAudio 2
Zebrify
PrimalTap
Reaktor 6 MFX
Guitar Rig 5 MFX
Legend FX
Little AlterBoy
MS-20FX
Blackhole
EffectRack
Dust (fx)
Chorus JUN-6
Wires
ValhallaVintageVerb
ValhallaUberMod
ATKAutoSwell
TSAR-1R Reverb
ValhallaShimmer
ValhallaSupermassive
Gullfoss
Gullfoss Master
Gullfoss Live
ValhallaDelay
Tremolator
Super VHS
soothe2
Sie-Q
Radiator
PanMan
PhaseMistress
Guitar Rig 5 FX
Supercharger
Lunar Lander
MicroShift
Little Radiator
Little PrimalTap
Little Plate
Little MicroShift
P42 Climax
HY-MBMFX2
Blackhole (No MIDI)
XenoVerb
Spitter2
FilterFreak2
FilterFreak1
EchoBoy Jr
EchoBoy
Devil-Loc
Devil-Loc Deluxe
Decapitator
Crystallizer
GrainSpace
VSS4 HD

[impete]

Oops - seemed to have duplicated my post!

[impete]

Thanks Pete... I went ahead and bought it anyway as I thought i would still be useful to have access to the AUv3 plugins. However, the only plugins it detected that worked were the Korg Gadgets (but it loads the whole gadget software, not the just AU, so that's really no use either) - clicking on the list of failed plugins, I get the list below... which basically means, as far as I can see, it doesn't really work with AU format either... is that right? In which case, the advertised new features of loading as a VST and being a VST/AU host do not actually exist if you're on a MAC?

Hi! Many thanks for your support, that is very kind.

So to try to clarify:
- on Windows we support VST3 - at least, those we can scan but as you know we're still having some issues here!
- on macOS we support AUv3, *and* AU V2 *provided* those AU V2 have been marked as 'sandboxSafe' by the developers and have been properly signed by the developers (we don't support VST3 on macOS)

Why the thing about 'sandboxSafe' on macOS?

The reason is that our app on Apple is through the Apple App Store, and therefore runs as a Sandboxed app. This is kind of a trade-off; in return for our being able to sell through the app store, and for users to be able to run plug-ins with real confidence; that places certain restriction on what sort of plug-ins it can access (and these restrictions are imposed by macOS).

AUv3 plug-ins "just work" - thank you Apple for this!! and can be distributed themselves through the Mac App Store (and, indeed, iOS AUv3 can be distributed through the iOS app store).

AU V2 - these come from outside the App Store. Apple still allow them (again, thank you Apple), but only if the developers have ensured they work through sandboxed apps. In general, this should be a really really easy thing for most AU V2 devs to support, but many of them don't seem to be aware of the 'sandboxSafe' flag. NB: any modern JUCE-based plugin in AU V2 format *is* built with this flag set, which is very helpful of course.

The following plug-ins failed because they need to have 'sandboxSafe' set; please contact the manufacturer(s).

That is a long list! I'd ask you, please, for those AU V2 plug-ins you'd *really* like to use with Wotja that are in that list, please contact their Developers and ask if they can update them to set 'sandboxSafe'! We're seeing quite a few Wotja 22 users doing this now, once we've explained this all to them.

You'd find more info here:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comm ... nt_1036426

Best wishes, Pete

[impete]

My first impressions are that it is a very ambitious app. And by that I mean it is trying to cover a lot of ground by not only providing a musical environment to create but also an environment to deliver audio and video content. I tried using the standalone with mixed results. I switched to the VST3.

Thank you for understanding this at a fundamental level. Yes, it is very, very ambitious Especially for just a 2 man brother team, with only 1 of us a developer (me). 30 years, and we're still trying to push hard!

I have not had an issue with the VST3 yet. None. Please keep in mind that I am using the midi out only. I am not using any internal sound sources and I have no use for anything but the generative engine(s).

Wow, that is great news. Thank you!

fwiw... I came across the downloadable pdf for version 21 and that answered a lot of questions. Maybe they are on the main site for version 22 but I could not find it. Things like what the Phrasing parameters do or the Articulations. I'm solid now. I hope others get their issues addressed soon. It's a somewhat fun plugin to use once it works for you and you get your head wrapped around the adjustments.

btw...Win 10/ Bitwig 4.1.2

Phrasing documentation here: https://intermorphic.com/wotja/22/engin ... r-phrasing ... I think we have a missing Left-hand menu item for this one!

Articulation documentation here: https://intermorphic.com/wotja/22/engin ... ticulation

PDF guides - not yet available (the links are broken right now), but Tim is working on preparing them I think!!

Best wishes< Pete

[impete]

I think it may have had a problem with Surge.

Many thanks for the info!!

Best wishes, Pete

[Banquet]

Thanks Pete... I went ahead and bought it anyway as I thought i would still be useful to have access to the AUv3 plugins. However, the only plugins it detected that worked were the Korg Gadgets (but it loads the whole gadget software, not the just AU, so that's really no use either) - clicking on the list of failed plugins, I get the list below... which basically means, as far as I can see, it doesn't really work with AU format either... is that right? In which case, the advertised new features of loading as a VST and being a VST/AU host do not actually exist if you're on a MAC?

Hi! Many thanks for your support, that is very kind.

So to try to clarify:
- on Windows we support VST3 - at least, those we can scan but as you know we're still having some issues here!
- on macOS we support AUv3, *and* AU V2 *provided* those AU V2 have been marked as 'sandboxSafe' by the developers and have been properly signed by the developers (we don't support VST3 on macOS)

Why the thing about 'sandboxSafe' on macOS?

The reason is that our app on Apple is through the Apple App Store, and therefore runs as a Sandboxed app. This is kind of a trade-off; in return for our being able to sell through the app store, and for users to be able to run plug-ins with real confidence; that places certain restriction on what sort of plug-ins it can access (and these restrictions are imposed by macOS).

AUv3 plug-ins "just work" - thank you Apple for this!! and can be distributed themselves through the Mac App Store (and, indeed, iOS AUv3 can be distributed through the iOS app store).

AU V2 - these come from outside the App Store. Apple still allow them (again, thank you Apple), but only if the developers have ensured they work through sandboxed apps. In general, this should be a really really easy thing for most AU V2 devs to support, but many of them don't seem to be aware of the 'sandboxSafe' flag. NB: any modern JUCE-based plugin in AU V2 format *is* built with this flag set, which is very helpful of course.

The following plug-ins failed because they need to have 'sandboxSafe' set; please contact the manufacturer(s).

That is a long list! I'd ask you, please, for those AU V2 plug-ins you'd *really* like to use with Wotja that are in that list, please contact their Developers and ask if they can update them to set 'sandboxSafe'! We're seeing quite a few Wotja 22 users doing this now, once we've explained this all to them.

You'd find more info here:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comm ... nt_1036426

Best wishes, Pete

Thanks for explaining, Pete.

It does seem to me that the tradeoffs you've made for getting this on the App Store (can't load as VST in DAW, No VST Hosting, No Au2 - only AU3 (which in reality is effectively nothing) are just too great. I have quite an extensive set on Plugins built up over several years and yours is the first I've bought on the App Store. I'm sure there must be benefits and you've been doing this a long time, so I don't mean to tell you your business, but for me, I don't understand why you didn't release this via your website and then be able to include these important features - which, if working, would elevate Wotja from fun standalone to pro level integrated software.

[impete]

Thanks for explaining, Pete.

No problem!

It does seem to me that the tradeoffs you've made for getting this on the App Store (can't load as VST in DAW, No VST Hosting, No Au2 - only AU3 (which in reality is effectively nothing) are just too great. I have quite an extensive set on Plugins built up over several years and yours is the first I've bought on the App Store. I'm sure there must be benefits and you've been doing this a long time, so I don't mean to tell you your business, but for me, I don't understand why you didn't release this via your website and then be able to include these important features - which, if working, would elevate Wotja from fun standalone to pro level integrated software.

Well, that is a great question, and is something we have thought a lot about over the years.

Here is where we explain all this:

https://intermorphic.com/help/#app-stores-sales

Best wishes,

Pete