True Peak way above 0dB even with limiter applied?

[exist01]

I have Ozone Maximizer on my track, with the ceiling set to -0.1 dB and with the True Peak setting enabled. However my loudness meter (Youlean) is still showing a True Peak of 4.1 dB. Is this value inaccurate? Isn't Maximizer supposed to be limiting my True Peak down to the -0.1 dB ceiling? I'm not sure what's going on.

[plexuss]

I have Ozone Maximizer on my track, with the ceiling set to -0.1 dB and with the True Peak setting enabled. However my loudness meter (Youlean) is still showing a True Peak of 4.1 dB. Is this value inaccurate? Isn't Maximizer supposed to be limiting my True Peak down to the -0.1 dB ceiling? I'm not sure what's going on.

That doesn't sound right. Perhaps post a screen shot of your limiter settings so we/I can offer some advice?

[astralprojection]

it has happened to me before, when i didnt gain stage properly. make sure your channels and busses arent peaking. and it could also be a "bug" that has also happened before, where if i put a clipper before the limiter, the clipper would cut like 2-3 db when really it should stay at 0. but yeah, gain staging or reload all plugins

to answer your question though, yes the TP limiter should theoretically catch all true peaks, but if its already like 4db above 0dbfs then the TP limiter is like *surprised pikachu face*

[woodsdenis]

Maybe check your master fader on your DAW is at 0.00

[exist01]

I have Ozone Maximizer on my track, with the ceiling set to -0.1 dB and with the True Peak setting enabled. However my loudness meter (Youlean) is still showing a True Peak of 4.1 dB. Is this value inaccurate? Isn't Maximizer supposed to be limiting my True Peak down to the -0.1 dB ceiling? I'm not sure what's going on.

That doesn't sound right. Perhaps post a screen shot of your limiter settings so we/I can offer some advice?

Here are a couple of screenshots of my limiter and loudness meter.

ozone_screenshot.jpg

loudness_screenshot.jpg

it has happened to me before, when i didnt gain stage properly. make sure your channels and busses arent peaking. and it could also be a "bug" that has also happened before, where if i put a clipper before the limiter, the clipper would cut like 2-3 db when really it should stay at 0. but yeah, gain staging or reload all plugins

to answer your question though, yes the TP limiter should theoretically catch all true peaks, but if its already like 4db above 0dbfs then the TP limiter is like *surprised pikachu face*

Gain staging might be the problem, but I'm not getting any visual feedback that it is. None of my channels and busses seem to be peaking. Is there a sure way to know if something is?

Maybe check your master fader on your DAW is at 0.00

It is.


I do currently have a solution for this problem, which was suggested by someone on Discord - rendering the file out (without the limiter) as a 32bit WAV, then normalizing the audio and applying the limiter after. This seems to set the True Peaks to where they are supposed to be. From this I'm gathering that it is a gain staging issue, where stuff is peaking before it reaches the limiter. I am not sure what to do about that at this point, however. Resetting all my levels is a real hassle and the audio sounds good as it is, it's just the numbers that are worrying me.

I'm also wondering if it's actually a problem that the True Peaks are above 0 dB. Very many of the pro tracks I've heard on SoundCloud seem to be peaking way above 0 dB as well.

[cryophonik]

Have you tried it with the other IRC modes (esp. III and IV)? Also, I recall that the manual recommends setting your ceiling to -0.3 dB or lower, but I don't recall the reasoning for it. But, I've also noticed with Ozone in the past that setting the ceiling to -0.1 dB resulted in many "overs" and never really understood why. I guess I figured it had something to do with the speed and detectability of some transients.

[astralprojection]

it might also be just a single "fantom" peak/transient, that occurs in one single place in the whole song, and its so short in time it would appear only as a very thin line on the waveform, which can be somewhat hard to see i guess.
but if you render the wave out, and then normalize it; it would suggest its bringing that "fantom" peak down (which could be a slight click, pop, or something like that - it may not even be audible at all; but still "counts" as a peak/transient.)
if thats the case which is likely, i would suggest just put a clipper before the limiter, it will simply cut it out before hitting the limiter and you wouldnt have to first render then normalize.
a "fantom" peak can be caused by a bug in a plugin or similar, a hardware issue or just something went wrong somewhere.

if you look at the youlean, while playing the song - does it register the +3db Over at one single place in the song, or is it like, constantly hitting these numbers. because if it is, then its not just a fantom peak..
a screenshot of the full waveform would be cool.

[adl]

Might be a stupid question, but did you hit the red X on youlean meter to reset the true peak meter?

[TB-ProAudio]

I have Ozone Maximizer on my track, with the ceiling set to -0.1 dB and with the True Peak setting enabled. However my loudness meter (Youlean) is still showing a True Peak of 4.1 dB. Is this value inaccurate? Isn't Maximizer supposed to be limiting my True Peak down to the -0.1 dB ceiling? I'm not sure what's going on.

 

There are a few things to consider:

1) What is True Peak (True Peak is approximation of the maximum signal peak after the DAC. There are two imponderabilities: which approximation and which DAC is used.)
2) True Peak algorithm of the limiter
3) True Peak algorithm of the measurement device

To point 3: I'm fairly sure that Youlean does the TP measurment according ITU BS1170-4.
Simply it is 4xOS plus some filtering.

Point 2 is unclear (at least to me), never found an information about it.
And as stated in point 1 the concept of True Peak is an approximation, not real life. The DAC inserts not existing information into the analog signal during conversion. Quality of the DAC decides. So there can be arrangements of samples that let the DAC go wild (distortion, clicks etc).

Based on the above facts, no one can tell you if your value is accurate or not. And if there is a need for action.

There is a nice article from Friedemann Tischmeyer which explains, why the concept of True Peak could be relevant for you.

I would do the following:

A) Decide why i need to take care of True Peak. I know a lot serious master engineers not caring about True Peak. And their master sound excellent and translate very well on all kind of sound devices.
B) If you go the True Peak route make sure that you always use the same algorithm of True Peak measurement. Otherwise you get fooled by different results.

I hope this helps

[Ah_Dziz]

An oversampled clipper to catch ISPs set to like -0.5 DBFS before your limiter usually does well for me while giving the option of grabbing a couple extra dB of gain. Lots of the true peak meters are designed to estimate how the output will interact with the analog output like homie said above. I'd keep all your limiters and such set to -.05 to give yourself some room for encoding artifacts and stuff.

[carrieres]

Before True Peak was a thing, the goal was -0.3 DBFS not -0.1 and now in the era of streaming platform, the goal is -1 DBFS.
If you need an explanation look for SoundOnSound article ..

[LeVzi]

Are you seeing this in Cubase by any chance ?

[Trancit]

Before True Peak was a thing, the goal was -0.3 DBFS not -0.1 and now in the era of streaming platform, the goal is -1 DBFS.
If you need an explanation look for SoundOnSound article ..

While this whole True Peak limiting thingie is nothing but a huge hoax to make you guys buy new stuff!!!

Nothing but a theoretical issue nobody was ever able to prove audible for the slightest amount...

This only proves the power of clever marketing ... like with all politics... stating something without any evidence and as soon as this statement was repeated enough, everybody jumps onto this lie and defend it religously... silly world!

[The Noodlist]

Could the level settings in the ASIO control panel/mixer have an affect on this?

[kingozrecords]

Try to keep your dbfs levels below 6 dbfs before limit/max so that there's less compensation. Object orientated stuff can be hit and miss.