Wotja 22 - Generative Music App & Plug-in Host (Free, Pro; AUv3 / VST3)

[impete]

@impete I have now purchased Pro; agree with zzz00m re "supporting the mission".

One thing I have noticed is that, when I Quit Wotja standalone, it seemed to just sit there doing nothing. In fact it was popping up a dialog box prompting whether I want to save the document, but the dialog was behind the Wotja window. To find it I had to Alt-Tab to get to the dialog box and quit. This seems to happen every time i.e. the dialog is hidden.

This is fixed in 22.0.6!

Best wishes, Pete

[impete]

Is the "Macro Osc" based on Braids?

Yes, it is. What a great little unit!

Best wishes, Pete

[impete]

Tested Wotja 22 Pro on Windows 10 Pro 21H2, with these DAWs:

Ableton Live Suite 11.0.12: No transport sync, MIDI routing to another track/instrument is OK.
Cakewalk by BandLab 2021.12: No transport sync, MIDI routing to another track/instrument is OK.
Reaper 6.36: No transport sync, MIDI routing to another track/instrument is OK.
Studio One 5 Pro 5.4.1: DAW transport sync here is OK! But no MIDI routing to another track/instrument. MIDI routing is simple in this DAW. If an instrument supports MIDI output, it is available as a MIDI input selection for any other instrument track.
Tracktion Waveform Pro 11.5.18: No transport sync, no MIDI routing to another track/instrument.

Hi!

That is incredibly helpful feedback.

Can I please ask you to clarify what you mean by "No transport sync"?

Sorry if that is a dumb question , but I *presume* it is that the Wotja internal stop/start button don't control the *host* transport bar. Of course, I might be missing the point entirely, hence my asking!!

Wotja slaves to the *host* transport bar - the wotja internal start/stop buttons only stop/start wotja internally within the context of the DAW's master transport control. We might yet remove Wotja's internal play/stop buttons in the Plug-in versions of Wotja, to remove any ambiguity / confusion here!

Best wishes, Pete

[impete]

EDIT: Forgot this one - thanks for reminder @JamminFool

• When quitting Wotja the prompt to save is hidden behind the Wotja window

This is fixed in Wotja 22.0.6 ..!

Best wishes, Pete

[impete]

2) I also noticed that it will sometimes keep playing music even after I have deleted all the generators and have pressed the "stop" button. again, not sure what is triggering that, since it does not always happen.

Hi! This is fixed in Wotja 22.0.6

Best wishes, Pete

[ZincT]

Good point @zzz00m, I must try it again in Cakewalk which I know probably better than any of the other DAWs (although I'm trying to move to Studio One, but keep getting drawn back .

I have also been doing quite a bit of testing in standalone Wotja when my primary use of Wotja was really intended to be the plugin. I would prefer to avoid using external solutions like LoopBe1, if possible, so I guess I will stick with Cakewalk for now.

I finally confirmed that the multi-MIDI channel output from Wotja works in Reaper! Yay! Just set the desired MIDI channels in Wotja, and then select the channels in Reaper in the routing widget for the respective instrument tracks.

So mark Reaper and Cakewalk as a success for the Wotja VST3 MIDI routing and transport sync!

Studio One works for transport sync only. Studio One and Live don't appear to have the same internal ability to route MIDI as Cakewalk and Reaper do.

I'm with you on the move to Studio One as my primary DAW, but I keep finding excuses to drop back to Cakewalk, which I know much better. I am also trying to dig into Ableton Live, as it's unique workflow and resources seem to excel at ambient and experimental music.

I have hope that the Live transport sync issue will be resolved soon. That would also leave Studio One and Live as good options for the Wotja VST3 plugin, but still with the necessity to use a virtual MIDI loopback adapter for MIDI output to the DAW instrument tracks. IMO, it doesn't appear that MIDI routing can be fixed from the Wotja plugin side. DAW issue...

Nice Just tried it myself in Reaper and it works well and is easy to set up the MIDI channel when routing from Wotja to vst instruments. Good to know it's not just me who keeps slipping back to Cakwalk from Studio One (makes me wonder whether I should be moving to Reaper rather than Studio One). I did buy Ableton Live 10 Standard a while back but it just didn't gel with me so I sold it here. I got Ableton 11 Lite free with my MIDI keyboard so it's interesting to see the changes from v10 to 11.

[impete]

@impete

After testing the "export cell as template" scenario I realised that this had created a number of items on the Mixes screen which I wanted to delete.

After trying a few things (left clicking on the template just opens it, right clicking does nothing), I checked the documentation for how to delete a mix template. Under 6 it says to "Tap on this button (and/or right click in the Desktop version" but right clicking does nothing and left clicking just opens the template (on Windows 10).

Anyway, after a bit of experimenting, I discovered that if I "long left clicked" on the template then I got the action menu which includes the Delete option. By "long left click" I mean that I held down the left mouse button for a second or so.

Maybe the documentation could reflect this as a general statement for the Windows version (I suspect this is different to how the Mac version works; don't they have just one mouse button?).

Thanks, I've let Tim know to check the docs etc. around this!

Both macOS and Windows should "just work" in the same way. On Mac with TrackPad, you just double-tap on the right-hand area of the track pad.

Best wishes,

Pete

[impete]

ok. playing with this some more and I discovered that the GUI in Diva, Hive 2, etc. WILL draw correctly but not until I click inside the empty window frame. after that it seems to work fine.

Hi! That sounds like it is most likely a bug in those VSTs; as almost all other VSTs are displaying properly? Might be worth contacting the devs and asking them to check?

Best wishes, Pete

[impete]

in the standalone, i am trying to send one of the tracks in the example "V22 Play Me!" mix to a VST3:

however, when i add a VST3 synth to FX Chain 1 and change it from "Wotja: All Tracks" to "Track 1", it silences all other tracks in the mix. This seems like a bug. I want to use both the internal existing sounds on all the other tracks and only replace the sound on one of the tracks with my VST3.

if i switch each of the silent tracks to also use a VST3, they begin to make sound again.

so it seems like I can either use all VST3 for sound, or all internal, but not mix them together.

is this intended, or a bug? if intended, then I am limited to 6 tracks for any mix when i want to use VST3 instruments, which seems wrong.

Sorry, let me explain.

By default: wotja sends the Mix output data.

However: if you use the Host Plug-ins tab to set-up an Instrument host plug-in chain, and set-up an Instrument using say external VST, the Wotja output is silenced; Wotja assumes you're now don't want the sound output from Wotja - the Plug-in stage has taken control over what you hear.

If you want to add-in your Wotja output again, just create another Instrument chain, but set the Instrument to be the Wotja Mix output. You can of course filter this by Wotja track(s).

Your hosted VST chain output is added to your Wotja-driven chain, and that is what you want. I think! Please let me know if you need any more information.

Best wishes,

Pete

[Musical Gym]

Hi! 22.0.6 has (just) now been uploaded to the App Stores for review. There are a lot of fixes / changes in here, mainly related to plug-in scanning - as you'd probably expect!

How do I get the update from Microsoft?

Hi!

This should just happen automatically, in general.

However, we've got a FAQ entry on this, just to make things crystal clear:

https://intermorphic.com/help/#windows-app-update

NB: the Apple updates for 22.0.6 are now live, but Microsoft are still certifying the 22.0.6 updates for Windows!

With best wishes, Pete

Thanks Pete. Looking forward to latest for Windows when available.

[impete]

Folks - I've just finished reviewing all comments in this thread. Was a mammoth task

Summary of outstanding issues with the Windows the VST3:

• some people have reported issues with DAW transport control not working
  • Known to work: Reaper, Cakewalk, Studio One
    NB: at least one person reported that Reaper DAW sync dind't work until they'd reset Reaper to the default factory configuration.
  • Known *not* to work: Ableton Live (NB: I've asked for an NFR to investigate...), Tracktion Waveform Pro (?)

• some people have reported issues with Wotja not matching DAW tempo
  • Known to work: Reaper, Cakewalk
  • Known *not* to work: Mixcraft Pro
  If this isn't working for you, please let me know your specific DAW?

• we have reports that the VST3 plugin produces sound only if the DAW audio is set at 44.1KHz
  (but not if 48000).
  I wonder if this is related to the underlying Windows audio device rate?

• UI can be jerky / slow

• some alerts can appear behind the plug-in Window (!)

• in the stand-alone version there are problems with some VST3 from some vendors:
  Native Instruments: Kontakt and Massive load their GUIs, but can be unresponsive.
  Massive X does not show a full GUI (only a small upper left corner of the full plug).
  Roland Cloud: all of the GUIs are shown as only the upper left corner of the full plug.
  U-he: Diva, Hive, etc. are shown as an empty window frame (window is drawn full size, but is empty (transparent)
  Reason Studios: The Reason Rack plugin does not seem to play sound.
  Work-around: "you can get the Reason Rack working using the same solution as Omnisphere i.e. a plugin host like Kushview Element, DDMF Metaplugin or PG Unify."

Minor bug related to the plug-in hosting in the Wotja app (all platforms):

• bypass in an Instrument chain can stop all audio (until un-bypassed) in certain configurations

If I'm missing anything, or have made any mistakes in the above, do please let me know!

Best wishes to all, Pete

[JamminFool]

ok. playing with this some more and I discovered that the GUI in Diva, Hive 2, etc. WILL draw correctly but not until I click inside the empty window frame. after that it seems to work fine.

Hi! That sounds like it is most likely a bug in those VSTs; as almost all other VSTs are displaying properly? Might be worth contacting the devs and asking them to check?

Best wishes, Pete

you may be right, but i have never seen this with the u-he plugs in any other DAW (Waveform, Cakewalk, Reason, Live).

[JamminFool]

in the standalone, i am trying to send one of the tracks in the example "V22 Play Me!" mix to a VST3:

however, when i add a VST3 synth to FX Chain 1 and change it from "Wotja: All Tracks" to "Track 1", it silences all other tracks in the mix. This seems like a bug. I want to use both the internal existing sounds on all the other tracks and only replace the sound on one of the tracks with my VST3.

if i switch each of the silent tracks to also use a VST3, they begin to make sound again.

so it seems like I can either use all VST3 for sound, or all internal, but not mix them together.

is this intended, or a bug? if intended, then I am limited to 6 tracks for any mix when i want to use VST3 instruments, which seems wrong.

Sorry, let me explain.

By default: wotja sends the Mix output data.

However: if you use the Host Plug-ins tab to set-up an Instrument host plug-in chain, and set-up an Instrument using say external VST, the Wotja output is silenced; Wotja assumes you're now don't want the sound output from Wotja - the Plug-in stage has taken control over what you hear.

If you want to add-in your Wotja output again, just create another Instrument chain, but set the Instrument to be the Wotja Mix output. You can of course filter this by Wotja track(s).

Your hosted VST chain output is added to your Wotja-driven chain, and that is what you want. I think! Please let me know if you need any more information.

Best wishes,

Pete

ok, i guess that will work, but why should this be necessary? it seems like everything was working, and i just switch one track to use a different output, and that forces everything else to be re-routed by the user? maybe it makes sense given the way the code is organized, but not from the perspective of what a user might expect.

no big deal, but definitely counter-intuitive.

[impete]

you may be right, but i have never seen this with the u-he plugs in any other DAW (Waveform, Cakewalk, Reason, Live).

Must be something in the JUCE drawing layer, I suppose. What JUCE do is a tough job!

Best wishes, Pete

[impete]

ok, i guess that will work, but why should this be necessary? it seems like everything was working, and i just switch one track to use a different output, and that forces everything else to be re-routed by the user? maybe it makes sense given the way the code is organized, but not from the perspective of what a user might expect.

no big deal, but definitely counter-intuitive.

Well, I take your point!

Background to this: we decided after playing with original prototypes, that it if people were going to use hosted instruments, then from that point they *generally by default* wouldn't want to hear the Wotja Audio Engine output mixed-in as well.

The approach we have *does* allow the Wotja output to be mixed together with Instrument chains; and that can be filtered by Wotja Track(s) as well.

Just one of those design compromises!

We're going to document all this in the near future - just so much to do!

Pete