KVR Audio

Jolaff · Post by **Jolaff** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:50 pm

In Ableton there is no delay compensation for the visual stuff (transport bar, Spectrum, etc).

My question : Is it like this in all DAWs ?

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:46 pm

Jolaff wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:50 pm In Ableton there is no delay compensation for the visual stuff (transport bar, Spectrum, etc).

My question : Is it like this in all DAWs ?

You know that displays have latency, right? And that they dont report that to anything?

Jolaff · Post by **Jolaff** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:16 pm

whyterabbyt wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:46 pm
Jolaff wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:50 pm In Ableton there is no delay compensation for the visual stuff (transport bar, Spectrum, etc).

My question : Is it like this in all DAWs ?
You know that displays have latency, right? And that they dont report that to anything?

I'm not sure to get what you mean...

Edit : Stuff are displayed BEFORE the sound... ... and only when there are plugins that have latency...

Trancit · Post by **Trancit** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:23 pm

Jolaff wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:50 pm In Ableton there is no delay compensation for the visual stuff (transport bar, Spectrum, etc).

My question : Is it like this in all DAWs ?

No...

To my knowledge there are 2 kinds of different implementations...

The "good" one like i.e. Studio One or Reaper has (probably Cubase, Logic and others too...):
When you press play with latency plugins going on, basically the playhead stays on "halt" for the time the track with the highest latency needs to be in sync) before it starts really to play...
This method works perfect as it keeps everything in sync, audio and midi anyway but all the visuals stay in sync too (correct me if I miss something here)...

And the worse one which you already know from Ableton but you find this behaviour too in FL Studio and perhaps others...
When pressing play the playhead start to move without any audio being output and even if they have good latency compensation in terms of midi and audio (which both named ones do not have) the visuals are completely out of sync...

Jolaff · Post by **Jolaff** » Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:48 am

Trancit wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:23 pm
Jolaff wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:50 pm In Ableton there is no delay compensation for the visual stuff (transport bar, Spectrum, etc).

My question : Is it like this in all DAWs ?
When pressing play the playhead start to move without any audio being output and even if they have good latency compensation in terms of midi and audio (which both named ones do not have) the visuals are completely out of sync...

Exactly, when I press play the playhead starts and then comes the sound...

I found this on Ableton website...

"Which elements in Live are not subject to delay compensation?
Graphics Elements are not compensated
Level meters, video playback and other graphic elements might be displayed slightly ahead of time with respect to the audio."

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... sation-FAQ

apoclypse · Post by **apoclypse** » Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:31 pm

Trancit wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:23 pm
Jolaff wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:50 pm In Ableton there is no delay compensation for the visual stuff (transport bar, Spectrum, etc).

My question : Is it like this in all DAWs ?
No...

To my knowledge there are 2 kinds of different implementations...

The "good" one like i.e. Studio One or Reaper has (probably Cubase, Logic and others too...):
When you press play with latency plugins going on, basically the playhead stays on "halt" for the time the track with the highest latency needs to be in sync) before it starts really to play...
This method works perfect as it keeps everything in sync, audio and midi anyway but all the visuals stay in sync too (correct me if I miss something here)...

And the worse one which you already know from Ableton but you find this behaviour too in FL Studio and perhaps others...
When pressing play the playhead start to move without any audio being output and even if they have good latency compensation in terms of midi and audio (which both named ones do not have) the visuals are completely out of sync...

Bitwig behaves this way as well. It's annoying.

BazJacuzzi · Post by **BazJacuzzi** » Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:42 pm

Bitwig behaves this way as well. It's annoying.

Respectfully, It doesn't. I switched from Ableton to Bitwig largely because Bitwig gets it right.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:28 pm

apoclypse wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:31 pm Bitwig behaves this way as well. It's annoying.

It does? I never noticed it.

Jolaff · Post by **Jolaff** » Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:33 pm

antic604 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:28 pm
apoclypse wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:31 pm Bitwig behaves this way as well. It's annoying.
It does? I never noticed it.

No, Bitwig manage it correctly...

apoclypse · Post by **apoclypse** » Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:57 pm

antic604 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:28 pm
apoclypse wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:31 pm Bitwig behaves this way as well. It's annoying.
It does? I never noticed it.

I've noticed some visual lag when I have something with too much latency on the channels. It's not anywhere near as bad as Ableton of course but it does indeed happen on my end. Though to be fair I'm still on a fairly old version of Bitwig at this point.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:01 pm

apoclypse wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:57 pmI've noticed some visual lag when I have something with too much latency on the channels. It's not anywhere near as bad as Ableton of course but it does indeed happen on my end.

That's different - Bitwig's GUI will lag if audio engine eats into the GUI rendering CPU budget (or GUI rendering has exceeded some arbitrarily allocated CPU budget), but if you have long latency chain and low CPU then there's no delay between GUI and audio.

apoclypse · Post by **apoclypse** » Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:09 pm

antic604 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:01 pm
apoclypse wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:57 pmI've noticed some visual lag when I have something with too much latency on the channels. It's not anywhere near as bad as Ableton of course but it does indeed happen on my end.
That's different - Bitwig's GUI will lag if audio engine eats into the GUI rendering CPU budget, but if you have long latency chain and low CPU then there's no delay between GUI and audio.

Okay. I mean its still lag though. I guess it's just a different kind of lag.

Jolaff · Post by **Jolaff** » Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:56 pm

apoclypse wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:09 pm
antic604 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:01 pm
apoclypse wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:57 pmI've noticed some visual lag when I have something with too much latency on the channels. It's not anywhere near as bad as Ableton of course but it does indeed happen on my end.
That's different - Bitwig's GUI will lag if audio engine eats into the GUI rendering CPU budget, but if you have long latency chain and low CPU then there's no delay between GUI and audio.
Okay. I mean its still lag though. I guess it's just a different kind of lag.

Yes, It's probably something else because in the delay compensation problem you see things before you hear them... and you seam to talk about the opposite (visual lag)

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:18 pm

Reason 12 is 60 FPS without any visual lag as far as I'm aware.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:25 pm

v1o wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:18 pm Reason 12 is 60 FPS without any visual lag as far as I'm aware.

1) That's not the topic of the discussion

2) That's not true - R12 pre-buffers the GUI every time it's launched so after the project's loaded first time it lags a lot until everyting is buffered

3) Many DAWs will refresh the GUI as fast as your GPU and screen allow, so e.g. Studio One runs at 144fps here

Visual Delay Compensation (Ableton vs others ?)