Pashkuli: PMN (Plain Music Notation)

[shawshawraw]

I did not mean anyone specifically, rather the fact that people around and above that age have jobs, families, life responsibilities, maybe other hobbies, to just sit and learn a random guy's music notation that only he knows about (still develops).
Some even work with the old system on a daily basis: pro musicians, score writers, transcribers.

Our brains have the learn up to mid 20s really new things. After that it is learning about improvement really more than anything radically new.

Text in bold is the core problem dude...

People are more than willing to sit and learn radically new ways to make money

[mladi]

For people above 30ish, this is almost impossible to be done. That is how our brains work with age.

Again, this is also completely bs. What you're saying is simply not true.

According with your "statements" about notation, you talking about things you don't have a clue about. Abstruse bla bla without any real substance.

I'm off here. You've got enough free bumps for such an useless and stupid topic.

[Pashkuli]

...you talking about things you don't have a clue about. Abstruse bla bla without any real substance.
I'm off here. You've got enough free bumps for such an useless and stupid topic.

bon voyage
gute Reise

[N__K]

People are more than willing to sit and learn radically new ways to make money

Well... if one wanted to gain Dark Side points, adding "crypto", "NFT" and "blockchain" somewhere in the marketing pitch may increase the likelihood of getting venture capital for the project. I'd expect it to work for few more months - but the risk is that once cryptomania reaches disillusionment stage, every project with those words somewhere may be viewed as a scam.

In comparison to crypto follies, this PMN project in its current state is quite innocent and harmless, and I think admirable in amount of effort and dedication.

[...] such an useless and stupid topic.

Intentional or not, I think this thread fulfills very well expectations and true needs of most participants

[Hink]

the ability to retain information/learn and the life stages we all go through are not the same, especially for this discussion. Great debate for HPC but not really for here.

[shawshawraw]

People are more than willing to sit and learn radically new ways to make money

Well... if one wanted to gain Dark Side points, adding "crypto", "NFT" and "blockchain" somewhere in the marketing pitch may increase the likelihood of getting venture capital for the project. I'd expect it to work for few more months - but the risk is that once cryptomania reaches disillusionment stage, every project with those words somewhere may be viewed as a scam.

In comparison to crypto follies, this PMN project in its current state is quite innocent and harmless, and I think admirable in amount of effort and dedication.

I was simply thinking about Pyramid schemes Peeps keep falling into it.

I appreciate the effort too. But it needs more work.

[N__K]

But it needs more work.

On that at least, I believe everyone here agrees

[Pashkuli]

@shawshawraw
please, stop the offtopic and sidequests for money.
I am not here to make money. I am here to make History!

[Erisian]

I am here to make History!

Snap 2022-01-12 at 22.12.50.jpg

[N__K]

I am not here to make money. I am here to make History!

I can relate to the sentiment

That said, oftentimes making money and making history are not mutually exclusive. If anything, it seems easier to make history if one is making money in the process (or has money from elsewhere).


For example, considering that your project and Wataru Ohkawa's project have similar objectives, I suspect Wataru has more money for promotion etc.
Would be interesting to know if he makes a profit from selling his keyboards - you have one of those, I believe?

[nix808]

a keyboard can say 24,
does it sometimes?

[shawshawraw]

@shawshawraw
please, stop the offtopic and sidequests for money.
I am not here to make money. I am here to make History!

Some thoughts:
- As you lament the lukewarm interest you're receiving (people here not willing to learn what you invented), two things are here to play: 1) the invention still sucks and needs work; 2) you're not approaching the correct audience.
- Personally, I think your invention struggles to fit in most types of music that require a sense of "key", because yours is "anti-key".
- But on the contrary, in the experimental / avant-garde domain there may be a great interest, as folks have pointed out.
- AFAIK many people I heard of in this domain are more or less related to academia, and their acts are often funded by research grant. The climate might be different at where you live though.
- If I'm to refine this notation I would work with a professor in university and get thoughts peer-reviewed and published.
- I also appreciate the Japanese inventor's approach of transcribing well-known, royalty-free and most frequently accessed sheet music (such as Hanon the Virtuoso Pianist), and get performers presenting them on social media.

Hope some of this helps.

[Pashkuli]

@shawshawraw
please, stop the offtopic and sidequests for money.
I am not here to make money. I am here to make History!

Some thoughts:
- As you lament the lukewarm interest you're receiving (people here not willing to learn what you invented), two things are here to play: 1) the invention still sucks and needs work; 2) you're not approaching the correct audience.
- Personally, I think your invention struggles to fit in most types of music that require a sense of "key", because yours is "anti-key".
- But on the contrary, in the experimental / avant-garde domain there may be a great interest, as folks have pointed out.
- AFAIK many people I heard of in this domain are more or less related to academia, and their acts are often funded by research grant. The climate might be different at where you live though.
- If I'm to refine this notation I would work with a professor in university and get thoughts peer-reviewed and published.
- I also appreciate the Japanese inventor's approach of transcribing well-known, royalty-free and most frequently accessed sheet music (such as Hanon the Virtuoso Pianist), and get performers presenting them on social media.

Hope some of this helps.

I do not know who or which is the appropriate audience. Certainly it is not the 30ish+, but I have had experience with "book worms" and "authorities", so those are out of question. Most of them even see it as a threat to their job... which is absurd, but understandable.

"Sense of key" is a typical "book worm" expression. You can choose your "key" any time.
Do you mean piano-centric (visually)? I do not get your personal "sense".
But since you can not explain it logically and use "feeling or sense" as an argument, I can only ask for more elaborative explanation about that sense, please.

Academia is irrelevant. I publish it myself. They can only screw it up. And when they hear I am just a hobbyist who can't even play piano (but have designed two), they just shut the door. Same with business people\companies. Of course, I can understand that from their stand point of view it surely sounds as if I were joking and "being nuts". I have seen\heard that.

My path is quite different.
I can transcribe any piece of music once I am done developing the JavaScript app. At least from some decently performed MIDI-files. That is the goal now.
Tried to ask for help on that. Everyone says "how much are you going to pay me".
As if I have done all those music related designs, because someone payed me.

You are right though... finding the right people is the most difficult thing. Employers know that very well too.

[shawshawraw]

"Sense of key" is a typical "book worm" expression. You can choose your "key" any time.
Do you mean piano-centric (visually)? I do not get your personal "sense".
But since you can not explain it logically and use "feeling or sense" as an argument, I can only ask for more elaborative explanation about that sense, please.

Don't hurry on opinions

Often when I hear a song, my mind starts to tell me "oh this bar is on the IV chord, and now it goes to a V suspension" - the meaning of these numbered descriptions is backed by the functions a harmony provides. Most importantly, whenever I can tell "this is the IV chord", I also know where "I" is - the key center. And to develop this key center, every other number has its own meaning in terms of function - they are NOT equal. "I" is the boss. "IV" is away from home. "V" is getting home. etc etc. Therefore the line of thought treating all the 12 notes equal at any time goes against functional harmony, thus inefficient in describing the types of music that employ functional harmony.

Academia is irrelevant. I publish it myself. They can only screw it up. And when they hear I am just a hobbyist who can't even play piano (but have designed two), they just shut the door. Same with business people\companies. Of course, I can understand that from their stand point of view it surely sounds as if I were joking and "being nuts". I have seen\heard that.

My path is quite different.
I can transcribe any piece of music once I am done developing the JavaScript app. At least form some decently performed MIDI-files.

Gotcha.

[Pashkuli]

Often when I hear a song, my mind starts to tell me "oh this bar is on the IV chord, and now it goes to a V suspension" - the meaning of these numbered descriptions is backed by the functions a harmony provides. Most importantly, whenever I can tell "this is the IV chord", I also know where "I" is - the key center. And to develop this key center, every other number has its own meaning in terms of function - they are NOT equal. "I" is the boss. "IV" is away from home. "V" is getting home. etc etc. Therefore the line of thought treating all the 12 notes equal at any time goes against functional harmony, thus inefficient in describing the types of music that employ functional harmony.

You are talking about styles, certain style of harmonies and chord progression.
I do not see any problem with lets say... having any chord sequence and calling them by your favourite scale.

All I would suggest is to not get it imposed to others.
I agree that most clichè (cheesy) songs are diatonic and use "standard" chord progressions.

But before we go into that direction first a few axioms should be established with regards to PMN. They are the main structure of PMN in the same manner 7-note "diatonic" scale is for the "standard".

in PMN there is:
· no such thing as a "semi-tone"
· no such thing as a "perfect fifth\fourth"... those are just a seventh\fifth respectively
· hence your "I-IV-V" is "O-V-VII" (O stands for rOOt: "oh-five-seven")
· no such thing as "accidentals"

· intervals are as such:
0 → unison\root
1 → prime\first (old minor second)
2 → second (old minor second)
3 → third (old minor third)
4 → fourth (old major third)
...and so on
12 → :0 or renova (old octave)
:1 → reprime\first
:2 → resecond
...and so on

In the same fashion you write scale formulas and chord inversions (if you'd like to use the interval numeric approach to writing chord inversions)

You could say "Lmaj chord" but it will either have to imply only certain inversion or just careless intention about it. But then, L4·7 or 5L4 or 8L7 or 8·7L means exact inversion.
And also they will appear in the same fashion (maybe with noteheads instead) in the score.

Thus learning is with 1:1 correspondence to what you intend and what you write.
Gibberish such as "Dmsus2b13" does not mean anything or requires predisposed "knowledge" (unnecessary complication).

· 'major' and 'minor' on their own are valid because 4 is major than 3 and 3 is minor than 4, but saying "minor 3rd" would be a nonsense
· saying "R major chord" is valid, but saying "R major 9th chord" would be incorrect and invalid