How you use clip launcher in your DAW?

[Michael L]

Most music is made up of patterns so i think it could be possible.

I chose this piece because it has 'patterns' that could perhaps become clips.

...completely transform what's being played either randomly or in some sort of pre-programmed sequence.

Does Live or Bitwig have features to transform audio or midi clips in ways similar to how Bach does; or to remix this piece in a way that makes sense? (it's a public domain recording).

I have seen peeps adapt features (& create M4L) that are quite unexpected...

[dellboy]

It sounds like to work that way would be a giant hassle and simply the wrong tool.

Yes, we are agreed its the wrong tool. It was suggested that Mozart would have preferred Finale. But if push came to shove, and nothing else was available, his creative genius would have found a way to compose with Bitwig. Needs must. Whether he would have programmed it in with midi, or played it in track by track in real time is up for grabs.

The point being made is that DAWs such as Bitwig and Live are capable of much more than just "clip launchers".

A few days ago I made a song in Bitwig composed of eight tracks using the session view. Each scene had a different theme. I then dragged all these scenes onto the timeline. From there they were exported as audio into Cubase and using the arranger tool could once again be played as scenes.

Now what is a Mozart or Bach piece on a score sheet, if not a collection of scenes on many tracks read vertically?

[xbitz]

Have you gave the workflow a fair try?

I have not, because I believe clips minimise variety and surprise
However my DAW will be adding a clip launcher so I am "clip-curious"

Here is a familiar tune (Brandenburg #3) with midi animated (and coloured using this system: http://www.musanim.com/HarmonicColoring/)
How could Bach have 'produced' this by creatively using a clip launcher?

Hmm I have no idea because I'm not familiar with the music, nor am i trained in any form of theory so i'm just looking at it from a completely untrained perspective.

Maybe one could set up the song and then find a looping point where all the parts can loop for an entire scene. This could be all the various "parts" of the song such as the intro, etc.

Most music is made up of patterns so i think it could be possible.

I kind of hope some classically trained musician who uses bitwig could try and show that because I can't.

I'm not an expert so don't kill me , so the keyword here is phrases, they are used differently in different musical eras

typical transformation operators are: inversion, retrograde, retrograde inversion, augmentation, diminution, truncation, expansion, displacement etc., Bitwig doesn't support them vs Sibelius http://hub.sibelius.com/download/docume ... nce-en.pdf 3.18 Transformations, some of them can be found in the latest Dorico version too

[antic604]

Does Live or Bitwig have features to transform audio or midi clips in ways similar to how Bach does; or to remix this piece in a way that makes sense? (it's a public domain recording).

I have seen peeps adapt features (& create M4L) that are quite unexpected...

Bitwig I don't think so - at this stage it's geared more towards generative music and happy accidents and you need to put a lot of effort to come up with something that's harmonically coherent, especially if you want it to evolve and expand over time... Not sure about Live, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some clever ensemble of M4L devices that keeps harmony in check.

[dellboy]

[
Bitwig I don't think so - at this stage it's geared more towards generative music and happy accidents and you need to put a lot of effort to come up with something that's harmonically coherent,

Harmonically coherent?

What are you talking about?

If Bitwig is loaded with orchestral VSTs its perfectly "harmonically coherent". Why would it be less so than other DAWs?

As for being geared towards "generative music and happy accidents" (neither of which interest me), how is it helping Bitwig to grow if it gets boxed into just that niche category?

[antic604]

Harmonically coherent?

What are you talking about?

If Bitwig is loaded with orchestral VSTs its perfectly "harmonically coherent". Why would it be less so than other DAWs?

I'm replying to the question whether Bitwig has tools to transform clips into Bach's music that was posted on previous page, and I don't think it does - it's very difficult to for example have a single clip, loop it and have it follow key & scale changes defined globally, which is easy in Cubase or Studio One.

Obviously if you start adding 3rd party tools then any DAW can manage, but I understood the question is about native solutions.

As for being geared towards "generative music and happy accidents" (neither of which interest me), how is it helping Bitwig to grow if it gets boxed into just that niche category?

Not every company aims to rule the world. Some are happy to remain small and generate enough profit to comfortably sustain small staff by targeting smaller, but enthusiastic and faithful client base.

Also I'm not claiming Bitwig doesn't have bigger ambitions. I've no idea about their long-term goals. I'm just commenting on current state of affairs. Who knows what we'll see by v10-11 at which most other established DAWs are now.

[dellboy]

Also I'm not claiming Bitwig doesn't have bigger ambitions. I've no idea about their long-term goals. I'm just commenting on current state of affairs. Who knows what we'll see by v10-11 at which most other established DAWs are now.

If Bitwig want to stay small, that's up to them, I can see that the current user base is largely into dance - EDM - electronica - generative stuff. I am looking at the wider picture beyond Bitwig. The "clip launcher" technology is now well and truly out there. Logic Pro already has a clip launcher, and the rest will surely follow, its only a matter of time. Even Digital Performer and Mulab now has a clip launcher. In my opinion, Bitwig are in the best position because they already have a great session view and arranger page. Logic had to joggle a session view into its DAW. Bitwig could open its horizons by adding notation to its arranger with better audio editing etc. The skys the limit.

[xbitz]

^^^ I think they gonna put clip containers (patterns) and all the transformation tools into some Grid like tool(MIDI) similarly to Architect

I think it will be able to trigger scenes/clips programmatically and transform them realtime etc. we gonna see

[pdxindy]

at this stage it's geared more towards generative music and happy accidents and you need to put a lot of effort to come up with something that's harmonically coherent

Bitwig is not geared more towards generative music.

And it does not take a lot of effort to come up with something that is harmonically coherent.

[pdxindy]

it's very difficult to for example have a single clip, loop it and have it follow key & scale changes defined globally, which is easy in Cubase or Studio One.

In other words, you want Bitwig to be more generative...

[antic604]

at this stage it's geared more towards generative music and happy accidents and you need to put a lot of effort to come up with something that's harmonically coherent

Bitwig is not geared more towards generative music.

And it does not take a lot of effort to come up with something that is harmonically coherent.

Again, I'm replying to a question about Bitwig's devices & features. There's no such feature like chord track or harmonic editing and obviously no staff editor with all the helpers, that will turn a simple MIDI riff into a symphony.

I'm not saying one can't create a symphony in Bitwig (although that wouldn't be my first choice).

[pdxindy]

Again, I'm replying to a question about Bitwig's devices & features. There's no such feature like chord track or harmonic editing and obviously no staff editor with all the helpers, that will turn a simple MIDI riff into a symphony.

I'm not saying one can't create a symphony in Bitwig (although that wouldn't be my first choice).

Bach and Mozart did not have chord tracks and generative helpers either. Of course they could write a symphony in Bitwig or in Garageband even.

[Ikaz7]

In Ableton I tend to start in the Clip Launcher (Session View) to develop the original idea. I basically start with one row (scene): make a simple drum beat, add a melody, add chords, add bass, add counter-melodic elements, add other stuff ... (the order can change). Eventually I have most of the material I need for the entire song in one scene (row). Now I keep playing with different combinations of clips muting this and that clip. That way I create different scenes for different parts of the song. Once satisfied with what I have I go into the classical arrangement view and drag (or record) the different scenes onto the linear arranger, thus creating a song structure from the dedicated scenes I made previously.

I find this to be a much more intuitive approach then working in a linear sequencer only. I used to work in Cubase for many years and while Cubase has great MIDI capacities, I never found it to be particularly intuitive in terms of composition and going from a basic idea to full arrangements. Sure, in a linear sequencer you can also set a 4 bar or 8 bar loop and start from there, adding and removing elements, but the Clip Launcher approach feels more flexible, particularly since you quickly switch between scenes and try out new stuff, while keeping the original idea intact.

[antic604]

Bach and Mozart did not have chord tracks and generative helpers either. Of course they could write a symphony in Bitwig or in Garageband even.

For f**ks sake, that's the question I was replying to...

Does Live or Bitwig have features to transform audio or midi clips in ways similar to how Bach does; or to remix this piece in a way that makes sense? (it's a public domain recording).

...and the answer is: no, at this time Bitwig doesn't have features or devices like that, contrary to some other DAWs and dedicated notation software.

[pdxindy]

Does Live or Bitwig have features to transform audio or midi clips in ways similar to how Bach does; or to remix this piece in a way that makes sense? (it's a public domain recording).

...and the answer is: no, at this time Bitwig doesn't have features or devices like that, contrary to some other DAWs and dedicated notation software.

The answer is yes it does... the piano roll and ability to edit note data is all that is needed. Bach did not use anything but paper and pen.