Experiential discovery vs. formal training in music theory

[kelvyn]

I know nothing about music don’t read or write, no theory, chords, circle of fifths and I am also not a good or even adequate player. Despite all that and what some would consider a hinderance I am and have been a relatively successful professional composer and musician for around thirty years.

In which genre(s), if it's safe to tell that on a forum?

I bet you have plenty of "personal theory", in some sense

No problem! I compose for film and commercials which means anything from Chanson, jazz, pop, rock, sound design, classic as well as contemporary stuff for my projects.

Yes! But it’s more philosophical than musical.

[jancivil]

It was basically musique concrete, found sounds and crude edits on a cheap cassette recorder.

That is fascinating!

Do you still have the recordings, original or digitized?

I didn't still have them 50 yrs ago. I don't have anything from the past (pre-2007).
There are two things I would dearly love to have, one of which I did until about 15 years ago. The other one may still exist, but unless someone baked the big ol' multitrack tape, I think a 2", it's over.

[jancivil]

as far as existentially lucky, I got into conservatory because I qualified to, I made the audition. The luck was my father paid my rent the first trimester of my second year. He got sick of it, didn't do anything for my SFCM adventure, so here's one last semester. I borrowed money from the US government for that, 1250 USD which last I've seen anything regarding it had gone over 4000. Interest. I don't know if it's been forgiven by some legislation, I did get the 1200 in 2021, and the money in 2020.

[Synthack]

Ok so i've been watching a few videos and learning a ton. I have to say that I appreciate this stuff, it's been teaching me a whole ton.

So just to be clear I'm not anti-theory. I am very open to it, and maybe I was a bit harsh earlier.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH036NNMYMw

Btw ixi is amazing and i'm so glad she made this stuff.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

A hypothetical case: could John Williams [let's disregard the age factor for sake of conversation] make genre-acceptable psytrance, for example?

Would he ever want to do that? If yes, I am sure he would find a way And should he fail, most DAWs come with loads of prefabed midi- and audioloops now a days.

And who decides what is genre-acceptable in psy-trance? The internet-university?

[gaggle of hermits]

A hypothetical case: could John Williams [let's disregard the age factor for sake of conversation] make genre-acceptable psytrance, for example?
In terms of theory skills, absolutely - he has all the knowledge required for it. In terms of sound design - after reading a few synth manuals, more likely than not.
But internalizing the genre aesthetics and sensibilities, and "tuning into the spirit of the scene", so to speak? I'm not so sure.

I think this question has more to do with the bizarre gatekeeping that surrounds dance genres than anyone's ability to make said music.

[vurt]

A hypothetical case: could John Williams [let's disregard the age factor for sake of conversation] make genre-acceptable psytrance, for example?

Would he ever want to do that? If yes, I am sure he would find a way And should he fail, most DAWs come with loads of prefabed midi- and audioloops now a days.

And who decides what is genre-acceptable in psy-trance? The internet-university?

well he's very good at copying so i reckon he'd do a reasonable job, but it would be like when underground music, reaches the masses, and it's somehow lost the "essence" and is now in its death throws (see dance music as an example)(or hip hop)(or rock)(see where im going here?)

[Hink]

yeah your () keys are stuck

[vurt]

A hypothetical case: could John Williams [let's disregard the age factor for sake of conversation] make genre-acceptable psytrance, for example?
In terms of theory skills, absolutely - he has all the knowledge required for it. In terms of sound design - after reading a few synth manuals, more likely than not.
But internalizing the genre aesthetics and sensibilities, and "tuning into the spirit of the scene", so to speak? I'm not so sure.

I think this question has more to do with the bizarre gatekeeping that surrounds dance genres than anyone's ability to make said music.

i disagree, anyone who spends time in any scene, can recognise nuances that outsiders miss, and while they can achieve something similar, it does miss something.

doesn't make it bad necessarily, but you can usually tell when someone is cashing in on "your scene" as oppose to being a part of it.

[vurt]

yeah your () keys are stuck

( )*( )

[Hink]

they're here

[gaggle of hermits]

i disagree, anyone who spends time in any scene, can recognise nuances that outsiders miss, and while they can achieve something similar, it does miss something.

doesn't make it bad necessarily, but you can usually tell when someone is cashing in on "your scene" as oppose to being a part of it.

you can normally tell when someone is doing a bad job at cashing in on a scene. people don't notice when it's successful. for dance specifically, there are a ton of ghost producers out there and some of the best ones are very much outside "the scene", whichever one it is. but they keep their heads down and do fine even in highly authenticity conscious genres like hiphop.

I guarantee you that John Williams releasing under his own name vs some anonymous psedonym would be received entirely differently. the former immediately runs the risk of "cashing in" comments; the latter is just an amateur who hasn't got (whichever collection of self-declared attributes) right, or if they pass said gatekeeping test: the producer of a righteous banger.

however, at the time I posted, I was more thinking of the faintly ridiculous Detroit techno thread on gearspace that's running at the moment, in which a bunch of mid-life crisis blokes argue the toss as to whether anyone can make Detroit techno now after some neophyte asked for some tips on making it. it's runs the gamut of narcissism of small differences.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

well he's very good at copying so i reckon he'd do a reasonable job, but it would be like when underground music, reaches the masses, and it's somehow lost the "essence"

Beyond a 4-to-the-floor, a repetitive umbada-umbada bass drone, some random phrygian arpeggios and farty effects, I had no living clue that Psy-trance had an essence. My bad.

I fancied old school goa as trance dance candidate. Had more exciting movements and cool phrygian themes in the bass.

[gaggle of hermits]

well he's very good at copying so i reckon he'd do a reasonable job, but it would be like when underground music, reaches the masses, and it's somehow lost the "essence"

Beyond a 4-to-the-floor, a repetitive umbada-umbada bass drone, some random phrygian arpeggios and farty effects, I had no living clue that Psy-trance had an essence. My bad.

I fancied old school goa as trance dance candidate. Had more exciting movements and cool phrygian themes in the bass.

laydeez aaaaaand gee-entlemen, I present to you the narcissism of small differences in a nutshell.

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Movements and melodies in bass versus non = drone is no small difference to me, sweetheart