TO ALL Developers of Software Plugins ! Take out Personal Informations from Plugins !

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jens wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:56 amThe law is what it says it is.
That doesnt actually mean its what you say it is.

Perhaps you could list your legal qualifications, in support of your implicit claim to informedly assess what a law means when it says something.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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As I said initially: We are changing our licensing system. So there's opportunity to discuss things, and constructive ideas are very welcome.

A QR code sounds interesting, but I think today almost everyone knows how to scan them. If the name or email address as in there in plain text, there wouldn't be any improvement. If it was a license number or some such thing, it could simply be put there without the QR code.

I have no problem with changing things, and with our new system we will probably be fine with displaying a plain license number on the UI (which is not a serial and which does not have any meaning whatsoever, but we can evaluate if a person has the most current of version of their license installed).

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I don't think the current laws and regulations cover an ID being displayed on a GUI. They are about the data stored on a supplier's servers.

Maybe a little notice on the shopping page would help, before confirming a purchase.

If one can use an alias the problem is a non-problem, anyway. Like the license plate on a car: the general population can read the license plate, but doesn't know who it belongs to. Only authorized people such as the police can access that information.

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U-he plugins only show your user name and nothing else and only until you select a patch. In most DAWs you can set a default patch that loads when the plugin loads so then your name never shows.

It really is a non-issue and we can tell that because who else has complained about it in all the years the system has been in place? So now because one user complained it's suddenly an issue?

I imagine it's a small percentage of the user base who wants to do live streaming with U-he plugins and of those who do I imagine most if not all are smart enough to figure out how to hide their name from being displayed.
Urs wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:26 pm As I said initially: We are changing our licensing system. So there's opportunity to discuss things, and constructive ideas are very welcome.
I will ask that you don't change your copy protection method as it is one of the most user friendly in the business.

A simple numerical code that shows at start up that your back office can connect to a user name and license number should placate everyone's complaints about "privacy" and still allow you the same advantages the current display provides.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Copy protection method != licensing system.

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Urs wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:26 pm As I said initially: We are changing our licensing system. So there's opportunity to discuss things, and constructive ideas are very welcome.

A QR code sounds interesting, but I think today almost everyone knows how to scan them. If the name or email address as in there in plain text, there wouldn't be any improvement. If it was a license number or some such thing, it could simply be put there without the QR code.

I have no problem with changing things, and with our new system we will probably be fine with displaying a plain license number on the UI (which is not a serial and which does not have any meaning whatsoever, but we can evaluate if a person has the most current of version of their license installed).
I remember you having mentioned a single key file validating all purchased u-he plugins and as long as it is an offline key file activation, it's as good as a regular serial number. Please no QR codes or any of that nonsense. Offline key files and serial numbers are the most user-friendly copy protection.

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EvilDragon wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:25 pm Copy protection method != licensing system.
Yes of course and I'd really like the copy protection method or licensing system whatever you want to call it not be changed to something that is less user friendly.

But that's a discussion for another thread perhaps inside the U-He forum.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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elxsound wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:56 am Try reaching out to each developer. You can usually have them register each plug-in to your company/user name.
This.

We (or rather our payment handling service) may need some legitimate information about people on record for bookkeeping with the authorities, but it doesn't matter to us what name is displayed on the plugin. If you're bothered by your name on the plugin UI, send an email to our support address and we'll change it, no big deal. Realistic solution via one email.

In our case, changing the name will also change the serial number, so the user will have to re-authorize their installation before an already installed/authorized plugin will display the changed name. Apart from that - zero problem.

Synthack wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:17 pm (...) just censor the info out via editing. (...)
jens wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:41 pm 1.) if you're streaming live that option goes out of the window
Is the option of sending us an email and asking us nicely to change the information displayed on the plugin also out of the window?
jens wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:41 pm 2) "takes a bit of work" is quite the understatement here
Which video editor do you use, that it doesn't allow you to create mask/blur layers in a few clicks, which can be set up to automatically follow and obscure certain on-screen elements, like a piece of text? (Rhetorical question.)

chk071 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:01 pm Support cases? First thing you'll know is who you are talking to. And, if it's not, you can ask for the presonal info in the email.
We VERY often get emails that contain zero helpful information at all. No names, no products, no serials, no anything. Sometimes it's a matter of helplessness, sometimes it's entitlement, sometimes it's a lack of computer handling skills, sometimes it's being inconsiderate, sometimes it just slips people's mind, sadly often times it's also due to a lack of communication skills. And every so often, there will be people who used different names and email addresses to purchase several of our products over the years, but don't remember which info they used for what plugin. Not to forget, some people just straight up lie. Having some cold, hard facts to compare a user's claims against is often instrumental and the only thing that helps us help them.

cryophonik wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:42 pm It seems to me that the easiest solution is to put any personal information in the About tab/window
In my many years at u-he, having an easily searchable identifier (like a name) and some information (host, plugin format, CPU architecture, revision, version, etc.) immediately visible on one screenshot, and available without sending 20 messages back and forth (trying to explain to a 75 year old, or a raging ranter, what sequence of icons and buttons to click in order to display some dialog, and/or how to copy that information into an email; don't get me started on crash reports), has helped turn enough "no clue what's going on" situations into "glad I could help" situations to make a strong argument for it. In support, easy is key.

capracan wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:33 pm lets show the serial number its more easy to find out the streamer by search in SN data of the dev.
Not if the serial number is generated from the user's name, but the serial can't be deconstructed to reveal which name it was created from.

capracan wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:31 pm If i bought a CAR (...) the licence plate is the only visible authentification that anybody can see and use.
That is not an analogy, not even close. Can you unlawfully enter and use a car, just by knowing its licence plate? Can you avoid purchasing a car by knowing the licence plate of a friend?

capracan wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:31 pm Thankfully some Dev´s will change the mind to a bit more privacy for users. Thanks a lot.
As was mentioned before - none of the companies are giving away the information. You are. If you don't want people on the train to see what phone number you're dialling or to look over your shoulder while typing an SMS or email, it's not up to the mobile phone manufacturer or cell network provider to make phone numbers less revealing, and it's not up to the notebook manufacturer to obscure text as you type it. It's up to you, the user, to make sure the information you don't want others to see stays unseen.

Tj Shredder wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:07 am All this is clearly illegal in the EU, it is a clear violation of the DSGVO law (...) No dev is allowed to display personal information on the screen!
jens wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:28 am what he complains about apparently is even against the law at least in the EU (where a majority of the developers resides).
Is it though? Or are you, and I'm wildly guessing here, maybe not a lawyer, especially not in the related field, and possibly confusing the DS-GVO/GDPR laws that regulate what personal information companies can legally obtain and store and how they are allowed to do so, with a completely unrelated topic, i.e. that of people disclosing their personal information themselves by creating and sharing content, and not censoring their work sufficiently?

jens wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:01 am Nope, that is your (false) interpretation of it. Look at the paragraphs I quoted above. You are in clear violation of them. There is simply no way around this fact.
Nope, that is your (false) interpretation of the paragraph you quoted. Again, DS-GVO is about lowering collection of unnecessary data, thereby lowering the likeliness of critical information being pirated in data breaches, and generelly about handling privacy in a company/customer relationship. DS-GVO has nothing to do with telling companies which information they may display on their users' computer screens.

Have you sued Microsoft already? I mean, every time you log in to Windows, they display your account name, how anti-privacy is that. Imagine doing a screen-cast, and being so unprepared that you have to look for files that are stored in your user documents folder. E-VE-RY-ONE could read your user name in the Explorer path bar.

And we should rile people up to get a class act or something against KVR going, I mean, everyone can find everyone else's unique User ID by just LOOKING AT TEH LINK URLSES!!!11!1! Talking to you, Mr. 8022!!!

jens wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:07 am Ist über eine Bildschirmaufnahme eine Identizierung des Kunden möglich?
Ja, ist sie!
Erfolgt die Auslieferung der Bildschirmaufnahme von Seiten unserer Firma? Nein, tut sie nicht.

jens wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:07 am Erfolgt die derartige Speicherung personenbezogener Daten Eurerseits aus dem Grund, oder zu
dem Zweck, zu welchem Ihr diese personenbezogenen Daten ursprünglich erhoben habt?
Nein, das tut sie in keiner Weise.
Ich kann nur für u-he sprechen. Wir speichern die angesprochenen personenbezogenen Daten (i.e. Name auf Plugin UI) nicht in unserem System, sondern der Kunde speichert sie auf seinem System. Diese personenbezogenen Daten (i.e. der Name) werden auf dem System des Kunden gespeichert, um eine Offline-Aktivierung des Produkts zu ermöglichen und um Kopierschutz zu betreiben. Und exakt das ist der Grund, aus dem wir diese Daten (i.e. den Namen) erhoben haben.

Konstantes Online-sein und ständiges challenge/response durch Service Center oder die Plugins selbst würde es uns problemlos ermöglichen, in-house tiefgehende Benutzerprofile anzulegen. Wer updatet häufig, wer benutzt welches Plugin viel, usw. Solange wir in der Datenschutzerklärung darüber informieren, und der Kunde nicht explizit widerspricht, wäre das rechtens. Wäre dir so etwas lieber? (Rhetorische Frage.)

jens wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:07 am You may be in denial all you like. You won't manage to change the facts though.
Well, you try to do your best, don't you.

jens wrote:Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:43 am Wow - that's a lot of hyperbole right there. No, I am not seeking to "destroy your business". (...)
I would prefer "irrelevant" over "random" (...)
I would deem "random one of your customers" far more appropriate here. (...)
He claimed that you discussed this with "your lawyers". I basically asked him whether he knows for a fact that you did.(...)
Ah, semantics. Signalling the end of any interesting discussion. Shame.
Last edited by #rob on Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Cheers
Rob
u-he | Support | FAQ | Patch Library

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Hey guys,

I just want to share my 2 cents about the issue that the OP posted in this thread. Please, take the following as a personal point of view. I'm sure some devs/users might agree or disagree with me.

We are one of the developers who display the registered name on the GUI. That helped us discovering abuses over the years and, very recently, we caught a big studio here in Italy showcasing our Echoes... a pirated copy of Echoes. I were able to spot that thanks to that label, then get in touch with the studio asking them to explain themselves. That episode ended up with the studio purchasing the software they were using for their work. For us, showing the registered name is a good deterrent against using pirated copies of our products. Is that fail proof? Absolutely not. There are a LOT of users out there sharing pictures and videos in their channels using pirated copies of our products.

About breaking GDPR... that's not the case. Licenses are individual and since you have to provide your real full name (or company name) during the purchase, that's perfectly legit since ties the purchase with the software license. Said that, I understand that someone who wants to showcase his works online doesn't want to share his full name. I got a couple of stalkers myself, so I can totally relate.

I think that hiding that information will help spreading pirated copies around, but I also think that we can improve that. I we could find a way to generate a sort of unique id for that license, then we'll have a way to link a product to a purchase without forcing a legit user to show his full name.

I don't know how long this will take, but that's something I'm totally open to.

Just my 2 cents,
Luca

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crickey13 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:38 pmOffline key files and serial numbers are the most user-friendly copy protection.
No worries. Offline key file it is. No more typos when entering serial numbers. No more typing at all when registering all products with one drag'n'drop.

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What I've gotten out of this thread. "Das ist Quatsch."

We are all Urs.
Bitwig Certified Trainer

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im not :(

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id imagine for most, if you get in touch, in a friendly manner, explaining, they will try to help somehow.

open letter stuff, rarely works as it feels more like a control mechanism

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vurt wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:54 pmim not :(
Fine. There are always exceptions.
Bitwig Certified Trainer

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billcarroll wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:59 pm
vurt wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:54 pmim not :(
Fine. There are always exceptions.
im not tall enough :(

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