KVR Audio

Weasel-Boy · Post by **Weasel-Boy** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:43 am

The new MPB M1 presented an I/O issue for me: what to use? My plan was to buy a new MOTU UltraLite Mk5. Only problem is MOTU doesn’t have any. Chip shortages have stalled production for months. People may see them by March or April.

So, I thought, can I get my old MOTU UltraLite Mk3 FireWire 400-only I/O to run on the M1 MPB with Monterey? The short answer? Yep.

The longer answer:

It’s because of two things. One is that MOTU released a driver package for “legacy” I/Os that’s Silicon native for Monterey. Regarding the UltraLite series: they say only the UltraLite Mk3 Hybrid will work, but that’s not true at all.

And that’s because of the second thing. There is no such thing as a FireWire 400 to Thunderbolt 3 adapter (or cable) and that’s why MOTU says the FW400 only version won’t work. But… you can assemble a chain of adapters to make it happen. Critically, one of them should be the Apple-made TB2 to TB3 adapter, because it is powered correctly.

The chain is: a FW400 to FW800 adapter (or cable) plugged into an Apple FW800 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, plugged into an Apple Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 adapter. With this chain (and the new driver), the UltraLite Mk3 FW 400 will work flawlessly on a 2021 MBP M1.

7DC84032-F303-4FB0-97A5-7FAC3E99C421.jpeg

Besides the new driver, MOTU’s driver download webpage provides very precise instructions for getting the driver installed onto a Monterey machine. If followed exactly, it will install and work correctly. They even mention a “gotcha” where you may have to return to a Preference step to double check that a setting is activated. They covered all the bases.

One last thing… a number of internet sources claim that you will need the external DC power adapter for the UltraLite. Absolutely false. It’s most likely that powered Apple TB2 to TB3 adapter that makes it work. External DC is not needed.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:44 am

I've heard people talk mad crap about MOTU but I never had any problem with them at all. I bought into RME a while ago but these days all converters are pretty dammed good and MOTU is roughly half as expensive as RME.

I'm about to set up a similar chain of converters for a friend who has a TB2 iMac I believe,

Weasel-Boy · Post by **Weasel-Boy** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:45 am

machinesworking wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:44 am I've heard people talk mad crap about MOTU but I never had any problem with them at all. I bought into RME a while ago but these days all converters are pretty dammed good and MOTU is roughly half as expensive as RME.

Same here. I originally started with a PCI RME and switched to MOTU after I bought a PCIe-only MacPro. Never had a day’s problem with their audio or MIDI I/Os. The fact that they seem to bend over backwards to keep as much of their older units running on newer OS’s (by continually rewriting drivers to keep up), is a huge plus in their corner.

Today’s little exercise is testament to their upkeep policies. Couldn’t be more surprised and pleased.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:05 am

^^^ Obviously RME are the other leaders here with that, but since I also mostly use Digital Performer I almost feel like I'm being unfaithful using RME. I recently got a Babyface and it works as an ADAT front end for the FF800 I've had for years, but looking at what MOTU offer it's insane the price difference. The recently discontinued unfortunately Track 16 does much the same thing as the Babyface. I found one at GC out of curiosity for less than $200 used! I would have risked some issues dealing with slaving the FF800 had I seen that.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:07 am

I recently told a friend I would help him set up an iMac with an old Fireface interface, hopefully it goes well, should probably buy the TB2 to FW adopter now..

Weasel-Boy · Post by **Weasel-Boy** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:18 pm

I hated to sell the RME 9652 PCI card, because at the time, they didn't offer the PCIe version (took 'em about a year to get around to the RayDAT). I really liked how it sounded as well as the TotalMix software they provided. That matrix was really versatile. However, the MOTU 2408/424PCIe I replaced it with has been doing a solid job since. The UltraLite is for my portable rig. Works fine, but I really dislike the version of CueMix it uses.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:04 pm

Well to be equal about it Total Mix is super powerful but it's about as convoluted as it gets. I don't recall Cuemix being half as confusing.

syntonica · Post by **syntonica** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:51 pm

That adapter chain is truly a thing of beauty!

Weasel-Boy · Post by **Weasel-Boy** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:30 am

syntonica wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:51 pm That adapter chain is truly a thing of beauty!

Ha… yeah, it is a bit of a kludge, but there’s no other way to get around it. As I mentioned, no one makes a properly powered FW400 to Thunderbolt3 adapter. For the $40 those adapters cost, the silver lining is dodging a $600 layout on a new UL Mk5 (which was my original plan).

TioSanx · Post by **TioSanx** » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:24 am

Hi Weasel!
I'm trying to get my motu 8 pre firewire to work with my MacBook Pro m1 pro running Monterey with your method but it's not working. I have the same adaptors except for the small one that connects with your firewire cable that connects to your interface.Instead, I'm using a cable that came with my Duet interface and it has FW 800 on one end and FW400 on the other. Maybe I installed the wrong drivers. Can you post a link to that specific "legacy package" you mentioned?
Thank you

Weasel-Boy · Post by **Weasel-Boy** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:23 pm

TioSanx wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:24 am Hi Weasel!
I'm trying to get my motu 8 pre firewire to work with my MacBook Pro m1 pro running Monterey with your method but it's not working. I have the same adaptors except for the small one that connects with your firewire cable that connects to your interface.Instead, I'm using a cable that came with my Duet interface and it has FW 800 on one end and FW400 on the other. Maybe I installed the wrong drivers. Can you post a link to that specific "legacy package" you mentioned?
Thank you

Sorry for the late reply. I don't know if you got it working or not since you last posted.

From what I can tell, the UltraLite driver software I used is the same package for the 8Pre USB. Please note: MOTU doesn't list any silicon-ready driver upgrade for the UltraLite Mk3 FW 400. Nor does it list any for the 8Pre FW 400. The silicon-ready software they do list is for the USB versions. That is what was recommended in my research and that is what I used. MOTU warns you that it's for the USB units, but it appears to work for the older FW 400 units. It sure does on mine. This is the link:

https://motu.com/en-us/download-center/download/347

As to your adapter chain, there's no way for me to know if your Duet cable will work or not. I went with the short adapter because it was the adapter recommended in a number of online articles on exactly this subject. Same for the official Apple adapters. The thing about the Apple adapters is that they draw power (easy to test: they get warm at the "dongle" ends). I can only assume this specific collection is why this chain works at all.

I think you should start with the software upgrade first and see if the Duet adapter does the job after the upgrade. And please follow MOTU's instructions on their download webpage.

Weasel-Boy · Post by **Weasel-Boy** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:33 pm

One other thing of note. I mentioned my original plan was to simply (and expensively) replace the old Mk3 with a new Mk5...but gave up because they were impossible to get. Here it is, late February, and there are still none to be had. The reason? Chip shortages.

Weasel-Boy · Post by **Weasel-Boy** » Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:54 pm

Just an update on all of this. When I originally started this project, the OS on the M1 was 12.1. It worked. Booting from an external SSD clone, the system also worked perfectly with the UltraLite.

Then I upgraded the OS to 12.3. The UltraLite continued to work on the MPB, but now failed on the clone SSD backup system. Initially the clone was “updated” via the “smart update” method SuperDuper offers. This didn’t update the 12.1 OS on the clone. Tried the “erase then copy” method and this brought the clone up to booting as 12.3. But it still couldn’t see the MOTU drivers. Tried reinstalling the MOTU drivers on the clone while the MPB was booted from it. Still no go.

The inability for me to get my bootable backup SSD to run the UltraLite after the OS 12.3 update drove my next decision: I purchased a MOTU M2 I/O… as this one was readily available (as was the M4). The UltraLite Mk5 was still unavailable at that time.

The M2 works perfectly, booted from either the MBP directly or the clone SSD. Turns out, there was a big plus in the M2’s design. When used a a DI for recording guitar… particularly guitars with single pole pickups, there is absolutely no RFI/EMI line noise whatsoever. Dead quiet. And it’s quite apparent this is not being achieved through some audio gating/filtering scheme. This is the first I/O I’ve ever seen that does this. It’s an astounding bit of tech.

Weasel-Boy · Post by **Weasel-Boy** » Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:36 pm

Another update to this subject.

Yesterday, I booted the M1 to be greeted with a warning prompt from Apple. It said that it had detected the MOTU UltraLite driver (I didn’t bother to un-install it after installing the M2) and it is considered “legacy” software that will be disabled in an upcoming OS update. Here’s the page they linked in the prompt:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210999

Incisive1 · Post by **Incisive1** » Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:02 pm

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.

Hi Weasel,

This is super helpful. So I have been running a 2018 MBP with touchbar on OSX 10.13 with the exact adaptor chain you have recommended for a while. For obvious reasons, I need to update my OSX so my research on what was safe for my Ultralite MK3 FW has landed me on your post.

I want to get to OSX 12.6.1 ideally - I know you have said that 12.1 was absolutely fine but I am slightly confused what happened after that. 12.3 worked fine for you and then I am not sure what exactly happened. I have seen your note about the apple warning with the legacy software but MOTU seem to have a solution for that through adjusting the security policy (https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/ ... udio-inst/ (https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/apple-silicon-motu-audio-inst/)) - all of this is theory and I need to bite the bullet but just need some reassurance of what I can confidently go to. Was 12.3 ok with it or would you say its a bit flaky?

Thanks so much

Getting a MOTU UltraLite Mk3 FW400-only to run on an M1 MBP and Monterey.