Software Synths VS. Digital Hardware Synths.

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vurt wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:11 pm to program in s piano roll
one of the worst things in DAWs, as for me.
luckily, there are decent step sequencer plugins.

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chaocrator wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:24 pm
vurt wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:11 pm to program in s piano roll
one of the worst things in DAWs, as for me.
luckily, there are decent step sequencer plugins.
yup! this! another choice!!!
great time to be making music, there's likely to be a way that fits you!! 8)

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I find it sorta annoying that almost every software vs hardware discussion focuses on sound. To me, that's not my main priority and once it's all in a mix, I can't tell a Moog hardware from a plugin emulation anyway. It's about workflow, playing/performing, and having fun for me. I use software all the time as well, but it's utilitarian, not fun IMNSHO. :D
Logic Pro | PolyBrute | MatrixBrute | MiniFreak | Prophet 6 | Trigon 6 | OB-6 | Rev2 | Pro 3 | SE-1X | Polar TI2 | Blofeld | RYTMmk2 | Digitone | Syntakt | Digitakt | SX7

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cryophonik wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:29 pm I find it sorta annoying that almost every software vs hardware discussion focuses on sound. To me, that's not my main priority and once it's all in a mix, I can't tell a Moog hardware from a plugin emulation anyway. It's about workflow, playing/performing, and having fun for me. I use software all the time as well, but it's utilitarian, not fun IMNSHO. :D
thats what i was saying, if you don't enjoy that side, there's little point in buying a digital hardware synth. they're for "playing" :)

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Bulbizarre wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:52 pm
seismicfm wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:35 pm I've been really trying to get back into hardware for the past few years, hoping to bring some mythical hardware 'magic' into the mix. But I just end up returning it after a week. First the Deepmind 12d, then Wavestate and now the Novation Peak. Don't get me wrong, these are great synths especially the Peak. But my soft synths (Repro, Pigments, Serum) sound as good or even better, and are just easier to work with for me.

I have to admit the Peak looked so damn cool on my desk, and it was fun to play with the knobs. But that fun factor died pretty quickly. It began to feel more like a hindrance, and gave me no inspiration like it does others. I guess going ITB for 20 years makes it difficult to try to even go hybrid. I have to give props to the hardware people who can get good use out of their synths.
I have a similar experience, though I kept my Peak as it still sounds different from the softs in some cases like extreme FM, filter resonance scream, overdrive. I also love the hw experience, and with the Sigabort editor you can switch projects and still keep the patches recall inside each session, that's a major hassle cleared up. I don't use the Peak that much in actual music though, but I get unique stuff out of it. Playing around with the knobs is like another way of making music, it's so easy to get carried away with the sounds and have a good time. To me this synth is more something to chill around than a production station. Still using 99% software while the Peak is watching :D
Are you guys trying to persuade me to keep my Peak? :D Except for pdxindy and zero crossing, who got me watching Waldorf M and p6 videos now.

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seismicfm wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:37 pm Are you guys trying to persuade me to keep my Peak? :D Except for pxindy and zero crossing, who got me watching Waldorf M and p6 videos now.
Naw, sell it and buy something else that interests you! Unless you're unsure, then maybe pack it away or leave it alone for a bit and come back later with a fresh perspective. I've been going through the same thing with my Arturia Microbrute 2S - I want to like it, but it's just not doing anything for me so I keep boxing it up to sell it, then give it another shot, then box it up again, yada yada yada... Not every synth floats everyone's boat. I have zero interest in the M, but I can see why it would appeal to someone else.
Logic Pro | PolyBrute | MatrixBrute | MiniFreak | Prophet 6 | Trigon 6 | OB-6 | Rev2 | Pro 3 | SE-1X | Polar TI2 | Blofeld | RYTMmk2 | Digitone | Syntakt | Digitakt | SX7

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cryophonik wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:41 pm
seismicfm wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:37 pm Are you guys trying to persuade me to keep my Peak? :D Except for pxindy and zero crossing, who got me watching Waldorf M and p6 videos now.
Naw, sell it and buy something else that interests you! Unless you're unsure, then maybe pack it away or leave it alone for a bit and come back later with a fresh perspective. I've been going through the same thing with my Arturia Microbrute 2S - I want to like it, but it's just not doing anything for me so I keep boxing it up to sell it, then give it another shot, then box it up again, yada yada yada... Not every synth floats everyone's boat. I have zero interest in the M, but I can see why it would appeal to someone else.
I've already done that 3 times in the past week :hihi: And I have 20 days to return it back to the store.

One thing that left a bad impression for me are the presets. They just sound pretty bland. But there's banks on Peak components as such the Patricia wolf signature sounds which are very impressive, and has made me rethinking of returning it. But I think everyone is right that one shouldn't focus exclusively on the sound and how it differs from the soft synths. Just treat it and use it more like any musical instrument.

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Yeah, the Peak presets are pretty basic. I think they were going for bread-n-butter presets for the masses, rather than presets that show off its range. It's pretty much the opposite of the Waldorf Pulse 2 I just bought - those presets show off the synth's depths, but OMG they are atrocious (thank god they're all overwrite-able).
Logic Pro | PolyBrute | MatrixBrute | MiniFreak | Prophet 6 | Trigon 6 | OB-6 | Rev2 | Pro 3 | SE-1X | Polar TI2 | Blofeld | RYTMmk2 | Digitone | Syntakt | Digitakt | SX7

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cryophonik wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:29 pm I find it sorta annoying that almost every software vs hardware discussion focuses on sound. To me, that's not my main priority and once it's all in a mix, I can't tell a Moog hardware from a plugin emulation anyway. It's about workflow, playing/performing, and having fun for me. I use software all the time as well, but it's utilitarian, not fun IMNSHO. :D
Hardware synths (with good GUI's) are really fun to play.

To me the sound matters... but not so much in some ultimate sense, but in the sense that my hardware synths are more easily tweaked in realtime. Playing my Moog Matriarch, I can tweak stuff as I play to create various results and it basically always sounds good. Softsynths are quite capable of solid emulation these days, but those are usually static examples. Softsynths are not as forgiving of realtime tweaking and generally have more bad spots than something like the Matriarch.

And of course there are the nice big controls on the Matriarch that make it so fun to tweak. :tu:

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Tweaking synth with a WYSIWYG knobs/faders is 1000x more fun than a softsynth + midi controller.

I'm yet to see a midi controller with let's say 30 or more knobs/faders, positioned on the panel like in a good synth (instead of an awful grid 8x8) with sections and labels for ad(h)sr, filters, oscillators etc... which are automatically connected to matched parameters in a synth (cut off parameter = cut off knob), every time I switch instrument channel in DAW. Assigning those parameters manually, adding labels manually - this is not fun, it's simply tedious and it's killing my workflow.
Synth designers are working on the interface to be useful and practical (good UX). Midi controllers simply have rows of knobs in some random places (mediocre/bad UX).

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pixel85 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:54 pm I'm yet to see a midi controller with let's say 30 or more knobs/faders, positioned on the panel like in a good synth (instead of an awful grid 8x8) with sections and labels for ad(h)sr, filters, oscillators etc... which are automatically connected to matched parameters in a synth (cut off parameter = cut off knob), every time I switch instrument channel in DAW. Assigning those parameters manually, adding labels manually - this is not fun, it's simply tedious and it's killing my workflow.
I agree. I spent some time using different methods, the keyboard manufacturers system, the DAW's system, or the MIDI learn of the VSTi's, and, it never really was fun TBH. Especially as you always need more controls, but, let's pretend every MIDI controller would be able to use different pages of controls, without any labelling, you're pretty much f***ed after 3 pages or so, because, you can't remember all that. And, even with the keyboards which have a display for all controls, you have to switch back and forth through the control pages. Not really the same.

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I don't get why midi controllers have been so static over the years. They have new stuff such as sequencers, CV in/outs etc but the knob control is prehistoric. I'm not a coder but it doesn't seem like it should be difficult to make a controller that has even just little LED labels on each knob that shows what it's controlling. Even 3 letters would go a long way - Env, flt, res, LFO, spd, FX etc etc. And surely to god computers/plugins can be made to talk to each other so that you load a plugin and it automatically updates the controller so it knows which knob is which? If you only have say 8 knobs - I can instantly think of 8 main parameters that the vast majority would want assigned to the knobs.
They can perform wonders and shit miracles but they can't make labels on midi controllers? :roll:

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Anyone here have the Take 5? I just saw chk071 post a video of it, it's first time I've listened to it and I'm blown away. Rev2 demos never impressed, but this for some reason did. It kinda sounds grittier, louder, wider..

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kritikon wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:46 pmI'm not a coder but it doesn't seem like it should be difficult to make a controller that has even just little LED labels on each knob that shows what it's controlling.
Well, for a start, coders arent responsible for the presence or absence of LEDs. LEDs are a hardware thing.
Even 3 letters would go a long way - Env, flt, res, LFO, spd, FX etc etc.
Where's the controller going to get that information from? Controllers are usually just sending and receiving MIDI, and DAWs dont know what a plugin parameter is actually doing within a plugin.

I mean, there's already protocols for sending a controller info to display to indicate what plugin parameter a control is controlling, like HUI, but that means your DAW and controller have to use that protocol, not MIDI.
And the DAW still wont know what a plugin parameter name means.
They can perform wonders and shit miracles but they can't make labels on midi controllers? :roll:
Yeah, that would probably be because they are MIDI controllers.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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What some Arturia and NI controllers do is pretty cool: Multiple pages of mappings for the knobs, and you can set up templates, with different MIDI CC's and names which get displayed in the display for those controls, so, when you use VSTi's MIDI learn, and map their controls to the respective controls of the keyboard, you have at least something resembling hardware controls. Still need to switch through the pages then though, but, not bad.

I don't really think you get that kind of "one knob per function" control of some hardware synths in the software world. Even when you would have one big controller, with loads of controls, and you could even label it, it wouldn't be enough for any synth, because they simply have different feature sets.

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