Steinberg Discontinuing VST2 Support in its products

[imrae]

Sorry, I really don't want to play the devil's advocate here, but, I just don't get what is supposed to be the alternative. Wait for 20 years until maybe, just maybe, another standard has established itself? IF it establishes itself.

The alternative was VST2. But recently Steinberg have signalled how aggressively they will kill it (by requiring developers to hand in their VST2 license to get VST3 updates).

It doesn't seem wise to build a business on such a platform, which presumably is why some serious developers are engaging with CLAP.

I think what some just don't want to accept is that nothing is perfect. MP3 wasn't perfect either. But, it was compatible, and widely adopted and available. That's much more worth than being perfect.

Maybe there are some things to learn from MP3. I don't think it's really dominant any more? There's a lot of AAC and Ogg out there now. (e.g. Spotify is using these formats.) These formats are less license-encumbered and have technical advantages, so there's little reason for a new audio system to choose MP3. Those are more compelling reasons to adopt a new format than pressure from gatekeepers.

But it is useful to maintain compatibility with legacy formats as people have existing digital music collections that they would like to play on new devices. Taking that away is going to upset some end-users, and telling them "get the AAC version" isn't going to help.

[chk071]

Of course MP3 needed time to establish itself, but, when it was established, there were at least a dozen other codecs, which supposedly were better, but never established themselves, due to the reasons I stated: A format which was widely adopted, and compatible. Same as VST.

Well... if you guys think a new standard can be established, I will leave it to that then. See you in 10 years, when VST will still be kicking. It's delusional to think that a new standard can be established in the next 20 years, as slow moving this industry is, and as much as compatibility and stability is required for audio software. Not even good old MIDI is dead. Still alive and kicking. And no sign of it going away.

[Sindikhate]

Do a Google search on "problems with VST3" and you will see why a lot of devs and end users are sticking with VST2.

The main problem with VST3 is that old developers have to learn new tricks to code them.

Of all my plugins, only 3 don’t support VST3. So a lot of developers seem to be coding VST3 plugins quite successfully.

I won’t buy a plugin that still supports 32-bit, and I won’t buy a plugin that supports fringe/hobbyist formats like the clap format either. The reason is simple: that developer is wasting extremely limited resources that otherwise could have gone to updates and support of the viable professional formats that matter.

ClAp probably does not even have 100 lines of code yet?

[Sindikhate]

Of course MP3 needed time to establish itself, but, when it was established, there were at least a dozen other codecs, which supposedly were better, but never established themselves, due to the reasons I stated: A format which was widely adopted, and compatible. Same as VST.

Well... if you guys think a new standard can be established, I will leave it to that then. See you in 10 years, when VST will still be kicking. It's delusional to think that a new standard can be established in the next 20 years, as slow moving this industry is, and as much as compatibility and stability is required for audio software. Not even good old MIDI is dead. Still alive and kicking. And no sign of it going away.

Industries nowadays claim in so many ways that they want to change everything towards a sustainable future blablablabla but the only thing they care about is to make more money on their stagnated market. Instead of slowly trying to repurpose themselves into something else and move forward, they want to stick to their industry by just shifting things around, inventing reasons for changes etc. And in the sum of things ending up not being sustainable at all.

Great sounding platinum records were made for years with less capable machines and software tools than we have today. Yet companies want to re-invent re-sell things.

The fun part is that they are wasting human hours and natural resources when in many ways we could have halted many things at certain levels and re-purposed industries to offer something else.

The race out there does not involve us in any other way than pushing different constructs to win with us not gaining anything from it.

What more do we want from Cubase for example? Bug fixes, STABILITY! And pretty much that's it. Anything else at this point is a little extra... a tiny little extra.

People said that the HiDpi issues with cubase and vst2 might be the reason they discontinue them from running in the future. Like.. how idiotic that is? For the very few and in my opinion weirdos that use 4k TVs when ONE 27inch 1440p screen is perfection for DAW use everyone else has to suffer? Still I believe it has to do with Windows changing in the future towards the way Apple changed their OS. At least 3 plugin developers mentioned this so far.

[chk071]

If devs say that VST3 isn't well documented, and that it's hard to adapt to, I believe that in an instant. I also believe it in an instant if they claim that Steinberg isn't really open for suggestions, and that it's hard to impart ideas. In the end, though, what matters is that VST is the format which every DAW uses, and, if you want to make money with your plugins, you better offer on that market. Even if things aren't perfect. Again, the fact that somehow now every developer seems to jump on the VST3 bandwagon, and the plugins work as intended tells me that, obviously, it is possible to develop on this platform.

If devs really think that they could change the world, and Steinberg, NI, and all the other companies will switch to their format then... well, I already wrote above that it's delusional.

[whyterabbyt]

Of course MP3 needed time to establish itself, but, when it was established, there were at least a dozen other codecs, which supposedly were better, but never established themselves, due to the reasons I stated: A format which was widely adopted, and compatible. Same as VST.

Compatible with what, exactly? Or are you using that as a tautology, as in 'compatible with the stuff that adopted it'

It's delusional to think that a new standard can be established in the next 20 years, as slow moving this industry is, and as much as compatibility and stability is required for audio software. Not even good old MIDI is dead. Still alive and kicking. And no sign of it going away.

What's delusional is for you to think that you have more insight into this than actual developers.

[whyterabbyt]

I won’t buy a plugin that supports fringe/hobbyist formats like the clap format either. The reason is simple: that developer is wasting extremely limited resources that otherwise could have gone to updates and support of the viable professional formats that matter.

All formats are fringe/hobbyist until they're not(*). And CLAP is being developed with the intention of being a viable professional format. One that isnt subject to the whims of a single company.

(*) and that includes VST3, which has only become less so because of very aggressive behaviour from Steinberg,

[whyterabbyt]

ClAp probably does not even have 100 lines of code yet?

Why dont you head over to the repository and count them, instead of making assumptions?

https://github.com/free-audio

[whyterabbyt]

In the end, though, what matters is that VST is the format which every DAW uses

except it isnt.

[jamcat]

And CLAP is being developed with the intention of being a viable professional format. One that isnt subject to the whims of a single company.

That’s not true. It’s just subject to the whims of u-he instead of Steinberg.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

[chk071]

Of course MP3 needed time to establish itself, but, when it was established, there were at least a dozen other codecs, which supposedly were better, but never established themselves, due to the reasons I stated: A format which was widely adopted, and compatible. Same as VST.

Compatible with what, exactly? Or are you using that as a tautology, as in 'compatible with the stuff that adopted it'

Compatible with DAW's. Compatible with hardware. Compatible with plugin wrappers, like those of some MIDI controller manufacturers.

It's delusional to think that a new standard can be established in the next 20 years, as slow moving this industry is, and as much as compatibility and stability is required for audio software. Not even good old MIDI is dead. Still alive and kicking. And no sign of it going away.

What's delusional is for you to think that you have more insight into this than actual developers.

Well... I surely wouldn't want to keep devs off from a lot of extra work for yet another standard, if that's what you mean. Bet they still haven't had enough after having to re-write their programs for Apple M1 compatibility.

Again, though, let's meet up here again in 10 years, and see how this new standard has fared then. I'm very curious.

[whyterabbyt]

Compatible with DAW's. Compatible with hardware. Compatible with plugin wrappers, like those of some MIDI controller manufacturers.

So, as I thought, tautology. Its compatible with stuff that implements it. insightful.

[chk071]

That's what compatibility usually is, yes. Interfaces which support it. But, you already know that anyway. You just disagree for the sake of it. Doesn't even have to make sense.

[whyterabbyt]

That’s not true. It’s just subject to the whims of u-he instead of Steinberg.

Its not just u-he involved.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

Even if your first assertion were true, which it provably isnt, there's no way this one is.

[chk071]

"Over-inflated ego" - yep, totally.