Plugin developer and where to find samples question...

[Digital coconut]

Dear Sirs, I have a question.
I'm a small VST synth (sample based) developer. What I would like to know is if I can create sounds in software like " Electra " or " Serum", manipulate them and use these samples in my plugins and sell them. Or use some Kontakt instrument that allows me to do sound design and extract samples and use them in my synths and sell them. Thank you very much for any information, because I really need a clarification from someone who knows or has gone through the same dilemma as me and if there is any other legal alternative for me to load my synths with sounds.

[DSmolken]

It's a tough area. Depends on the license agreement of the synth or Kontakt library; most don't allow this but some might - check the EULA. Output of digital synths can also be protected by copyright, but with analog hardware synths you're generally safe.

[Polomo123]

TLDR: Serum Yes , Electra2 No (Write with the support maybe you get a permission)
(Zebra no to Presets, yes to everything you did yourself
Omnisphere sound sources are off, but synth is ok wrote with the supports some years ago about a similar project . As long, they didn't change anything, this should be still in charge )
... but I'm not an attorney, please consult a legally expert if you unsure
such thing can become very very very expensive

Still there was the question for alternatives
Buy an old HARDWARE Synth (still don't use the presets , there can be copyright on that )
a bit gray, use an abandon (Freeware) synth (No owner, no one to sue you)

Serum :
YOU SHOULD CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE USING THIS PRODUCT. IT CONTAINS SOFTWARE, THE USE OF WHICH IS LICENSED BY XFER RECORDS TO ITS CUSTOMERS FOR THEIR USE ONLY AS SET FORTH BELOW. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT, DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE. USING ANY PART OF THE SOFTWARE INDICATES THAT YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS.

(a) This software is intended to be used only by the individual who purchased it, hereafter referred to as "Licensee".

(b) Licensee may install this software on multiple computers, provided that every machine is under personal ownership and care of Licensee. Licensee may make personal copies of materials within the package or otherwise related only as required for backup purposes.

(c) Licensee is prohibited from reverse engineering, decompiling, translating, disassembling, deciphering, decrypting, or otherwise attempting to discover the source code of this material.

(d) Licensee may not remove, alter, deface, overprint or otherwise obscure Licensee patent, trademark, service mark or copyright notices.

(e) Licensee may not share, publish or distribute the software without prior consent from Xfer Records.

WARRANTIES AND DISCLAIMER

IN NO EVENT SHALL LICENSOR OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OF ANY KIND, OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THOSE RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER OR NOT LICENSOR HAD BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OF THE LICENSED WORKS. SOME JURISDICTIONS PROHIBIT THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. THESE LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY

Electra :
LICENSE agreement:

This is a legal agreement between you, the end user (USER), and Tone2 audiosoftware.
The enclosed software program (the SOFTWARE) is licensed by Tone2 for use only on the terms set forth herein. Please read this license agreement. Installing the program indicates that you accept these terms.

License of registered Software:
The full version of the SOFTWARE, including the keyfile (*.t2k), may be used only by the registered USER. It may not be copied and distributed to other users. Tone2 can take legal actions against users, who distribute Tone2 Software without permission.

Grant of License:
Tone2 grants to you the right to use one copy of the enclosed SOFTWARE on your computers which are used in the context of one single project.

Sampling:
This product can be used for music production, making records, remixes, commercials, jingles, soundtracks for film, theatre, musicals and computer games. The included waveforms, sounds and this product can NOT be used for making music or sounds that will be licensed or sold as library music, sound clips or other sample based products. You are NOT allowed to export, sample and distribute sounds or waveforms from this product without our written permission. Especially not for creating commercial content for other synthesizers, sample packs, romplers or audio devices. However you are allowed to export waveforms and wavetables for doing sound-design with other Tone2 products (like Tone2 Icarus).

Copyright:
The SOFTWARE is owned by Tone2 and is protected by German copyright laws and international treaty provisions. All data enclosed to this software installer, all Tone2 keyfiles (t2k files) and serials for Tone2 products are property of Tone2. You are not allowed to distribute or modify them without written permission.
All waveforms, spectra and wavetables created by this product are copyrighted and intelectual property of Tone2.

Privacy:
Tone2 assures to process only data which is technically necessary or which is intelectual belonging of Tone2. This software will only read, write or modify files which are property of Tone2 or which are technically necessary.
Tone2 will not send, submit, distribute or sell any personal data from the user.

3rd party products:
The user is not allowed to publish or sell commercial 3rd party products which are based on this product without written permission from Tone2.

Licence transfers (full version only):
The licence for this product can only be transfered to a new user with a written permission from Tone2. After a finished transfer the old user must remove this program completely from his computers. The old user's licence is withdrawn.

Copy protection:
This product is copy protected. The user is not allowed to apply or distribute technologies or knowledge for circumventing the copy protection of Tone2 products. Tone2 products can refuse to operate if technologies for circumventing the copy protection (like cracks) are applied.

Copyright infringement and violation of the license agreement:
Products which contain intelectual belongings of Tone2 use technology to protected against copyright infringement. In the case of copyright infringement or a violation of the license agreement Tone2 can withdraw the licence. This software does come with a digital rights management which can deactivate illegal Tone2 products.

Reverse enineering:
It is illegal to modify any intelectual belonging of Tone2 without written permission.

Severability clause:
If a provision of this Agreement is or becomes illegal, invalid or unenforceable in any jurisdiction, that shall not affect:
1.the validity or enforceability in that jurisdiction of any other provision of this Agreement; or
2.the validity or enforceability in other jurisdictions of that or any other provision of this Agreement.

Acceptance of this license agreement:
By downloading and/or installing this SOFTWARE, the USER agrees to the terms of this LICENSE.

Disclaimer of warranty and liability:
THE SOFTWARE AND THE ACCOMPANYING FILES ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, TONE2 DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF PERFORMANCE, MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND NONINFRINGEMENT. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL TONE2 BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION OR LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE.
TONE2 CAN NOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR DAMAGE OR LOSS OF YOUR HARDWARE, MUSIC EQUIPMENT, DATA, SOFTWARE OR HEALTH. YOU USE THIS SOFTWARE ON YOUR OWN RISK.

WARNING: THIS PRODUCT CAN CREATE HIGH LEVEL AUDIO SIGNALS. LOUD MUSIC CAN CREATE HEARING LOSS!

[Digital coconut]

It's a tough area. Depends on the license agreement of the synth or Kontakt library; most don't allow this but some might - check the EULA. Output of digital synths can also be protected by copyright, but with analog hardware synths you're generally safe.

Thank you DS, I really appreciate your precise and objective answer mate

[Digital coconut]

TLDR: Serum Yes , Electra2 No (Write with the support maybe you get a permission)
(Zebra no to Presets, yes to everything you did yourself
Omnisphere sound sources are off, but synth is ok wrote with the supports some years ago about a similar project . As long, they didn't change anything, this should be still in charge )
... but I'm not an attorney, please consult a legally expert if you unsure
such thing can become very very very expensive

Still there was the question for alternatives
Buy an old HARDWARE Synth (still don't use the presets , there can be copyright on that )
a bit gray, use an abandon (Freeware) synth (No owner, no one to sue you)

Serum :
YOU SHOULD CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE USING THIS PRODUCT. IT CONTAINS SOFTWARE, THE USE OF WHICH IS LICENSED BY XFER RECORDS TO ITS CUSTOMERS FOR THEIR USE ONLY AS SET FORTH BELOW. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT, DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE. USING ANY PART OF THE SOFTWARE INDICATES THAT YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS.

(a) This software is intended to be used only by the individual who purchased it, hereafter referred to as "Licensee".

(b) Licensee may install this software on multiple computers, provided that every machine is under personal ownership and care of Licensee. Licensee may make personal copies of materials within the package or otherwise related only as required for backup purposes.

(c) Licensee is prohibited from reverse engineering, decompiling, translating, disassembling, deciphering, decrypting, or otherwise attempting to discover the source code of this material.

(d) Licensee may not remove, alter, deface, overprint or otherwise obscure Licensee patent, trademark, service mark or copyright notices.

(e) Licensee may not share, publish or distribute the software without prior consent from Xfer Records.

WARRANTIES AND DISCLAIMER

IN NO EVENT SHALL LICENSOR OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OF ANY KIND, OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THOSE RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER OR NOT LICENSOR HAD BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OF THE LICENSED WORKS. SOME JURISDICTIONS PROHIBIT THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. THESE LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY

Electra :
LICENSE agreement:

This is a legal agreement between you, the end user (USER), and Tone2 audiosoftware.
The enclosed software program (the SOFTWARE) is licensed by Tone2 for use only on the terms set forth herein. Please read this license agreement. Installing the program indicates that you accept these terms.

License of registered Software:
The full version of the SOFTWARE, including the keyfile (*.t2k), may be used only by the registered USER. It may not be copied and distributed to other users. Tone2 can take legal actions against users, who distribute Tone2 Software without permission.

Grant of License:
Tone2 grants to you the right to use one copy of the enclosed SOFTWARE on your computers which are used in the context of one single project.

Sampling:
This product can be used for music production, making records, remixes, commercials, jingles, soundtracks for film, theatre, musicals and computer games. The included waveforms, sounds and this product can NOT be used for making music or sounds that will be licensed or sold as library music, sound clips or other sample based products. You are NOT allowed to export, sample and distribute sounds or waveforms from this product without our written permission. Especially not for creating commercial content for other synthesizers, sample packs, romplers or audio devices. However you are allowed to export waveforms and wavetables for doing sound-design with other Tone2 products (like Tone2 Icarus).

Copyright:
The SOFTWARE is owned by Tone2 and is protected by German copyright laws and international treaty provisions. All data enclosed to this software installer, all Tone2 keyfiles (t2k files) and serials for Tone2 products are property of Tone2. You are not allowed to distribute or modify them without written permission.
All waveforms, spectra and wavetables created by this product are copyrighted and intelectual property of Tone2.

Privacy:
Tone2 assures to process only data which is technically necessary or which is intelectual belonging of Tone2. This software will only read, write or modify files which are property of Tone2 or which are technically necessary.
Tone2 will not send, submit, distribute or sell any personal data from the user.

3rd party products:
The user is not allowed to publish or sell commercial 3rd party products which are based on this product without written permission from Tone2.

Licence transfers (full version only):
The licence for this product can only be transfered to a new user with a written permission from Tone2. After a finished transfer the old user must remove this program completely from his computers. The old user's licence is withdrawn.

Copy protection:
This product is copy protected. The user is not allowed to apply or distribute technologies or knowledge for circumventing the copy protection of Tone2 products. Tone2 products can refuse to operate if technologies for circumventing the copy protection (like cracks) are applied.

Copyright infringement and violation of the license agreement:
Products which contain intelectual belongings of Tone2 use technology to protected against copyright infringement. In the case of copyright infringement or a violation of the license agreement Tone2 can withdraw the licence. This software does come with a digital rights management which can deactivate illegal Tone2 products.

Reverse enineering:
It is illegal to modify any intelectual belonging of Tone2 without written permission.

Severability clause:
If a provision of this Agreement is or becomes illegal, invalid or unenforceable in any jurisdiction, that shall not affect:
1.the validity or enforceability in that jurisdiction of any other provision of this Agreement; or
2.the validity or enforceability in other jurisdictions of that or any other provision of this Agreement.

Acceptance of this license agreement:
By downloading and/or installing this SOFTWARE, the USER agrees to the terms of this LICENSE.

Disclaimer of warranty and liability:
THE SOFTWARE AND THE ACCOMPANYING FILES ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, TONE2 DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF PERFORMANCE, MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND NONINFRINGEMENT. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL TONE2 BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION OR LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE.
TONE2 CAN NOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR DAMAGE OR LOSS OF YOUR HARDWARE, MUSIC EQUIPMENT, DATA, SOFTWARE OR HEALTH. YOU USE THIS SOFTWARE ON YOUR OWN RISK.

WARNING: THIS PRODUCT CAN CREATE HIGH LEVEL AUDIO SIGNALS. LOUD MUSIC CAN CREATE HEARING LOSS!

Dear Polomo, many thanks for your clarification and your detailed explanation of my questions. Well, a lot of rules and laws apply to this using samples thing, but you've given me several options.
Well, you said " Still there was the question for alternatives
Buy an old HARDWARE Synth (still don't use the presets , there can be copyright on that )
a bit gray, use an abandon (Freeware) synth (No owner, no one to sue you"
I have an old Yamaha hardware synth, But the process of creating a new preset (a piano for example) would be to play the note of my synth hardware and manipulate the sound wave through the freeware synth and re-record the wave? Or not? Sorry for my inexperience bro!

[HAL76]

The license terms that are made by the companys represent their interests, but not the international laws with all their differences.

In Germany (EU?) we have a law that says that a regulation of a higher rank breaks laws on lower levels like contracts - and you generally have the right to be creative and sample and sell the products.

Sampling does also not harm the devs rights in any way as long as its about own sounds.

Ist's lastly a question of the single cases, but I doubt that any judge would accept such an issue as the law ist not "clear" and simple in this case and nobody can proove anything anyway. Just say No if anybody asks.

Difficult in english ... Die Lizenzbedingungen mancher Entwickler sind bestenfalls nationalen Unterschieden geschuldet oder einfach feuchte Träume die mal wieder zeigen, dass wir alle irgendwo Fachidioten sind.

[BertKoor]

If bread & butter sounds is what you are after, then find that thread again I participated in about the Fairlight CMI Orchestra Hit. I think you hinted to that in your PM. That thread contains links to royalty free & permissive licensed General Midi soundfonts.

Obeying international laws is not rocket science. Just read the license text.

[Digital coconut]

The license terms that are made by the companys represent their interests, but not the international laws with all their differences.

In Germany (EU?) we have a law that says that a regulation of a higher rank breaks laws on lower levels like contracts - and you generally have the right to be creative and sample and sell the products.

Sampling does also not harm the devs rights in any way as long as its about own sounds.

Ist's lastly a question of the single cases, but I doubt that any judge would accept such an issue as the law ist not "clear" and simple in this case and nobody can proove anything anyway. Just say No if anybody asks.

Difficult in english ... Die Lizenzbedingungen mancher Entwickler sind bestenfalls nationalen Unterschieden geschuldet oder einfach feuchte Träume die mal wieder zeigen, dass wir alle irgendwo Fachidioten sind.

Sure, i understood my friend... " Just say no if anybody asks "

[Digital coconut]

If bread & butter sounds is what you are after, then find that thread again I participated in about the Fairlight CMI Orchestra Hit. I think you hinted to that in your PM. That thread contains links to royalty free & permissive licensed General Midi soundfonts.

Obeying international laws is not rocket science. Just read the license text.

Thanks Bert, i will check...

[HAL76]

By the way: >200 gigabytes of multisamples of mainly analog synthts published under CC0 / public Domain: https://github.com/publicsamples

Have fun!

[Digital coconut]

By the way: >200 gigabytes of multisamples of mainly analog synthts published under CC0 / public Domain: https://github.com/publicsamples

Have fun!

Hahaha, thanks mate...im already downloading...