Splitting an Audio in 2 segments = different sound? Correct effect?

[Caine123]

hi !

ok this one is strange, i wanted to split and audio file in 2 seperate signals, cause the rumble in the lower frequency area it too long, so i wanted to use a gate on it but not on the whole audio file. + maybe treat the rest a bit different too. so my approach idea is/was:

duplicate the file
File - LOW
File - HIGH

riuted to 2 different mixer channels
File - LOW = Pro-Q3 everything cut upwards 300hz
File - HIGH = Pro-Q3 everything cut below 300hz

strange thing, it sounds different together than muting those effects? how can this be?



or do you guys have a better solution how to do this? and why it sounds different? normally both together only split should sound unaltered? there may no phase issues...

[whyterabbyt]

how can this be?

because band-splitting(*) isnt perfect, frequencies around the split point will appear in both the split signals, even when using a filter designed for band-splitting, which you're not.

(* which is what this basically is)

[img]or do you guys have a better solution how to do this? and why it sounds different? normally both together only split should sound unaltered? there may no phase issues...
[/quote]

try different eq modes and different eqs, or perhaps a crossover filter specifically designed for this sort of job. bluecat mb7 is the most comprehensive at 7 bands, the hornet 3xover one is cheap, sigmod does other useful stuff too, and the one in the ddmf metaplugin demo can be used in other hosts.

[kvaca]

hi !

ok this one is strange, i wanted to split and audio file in 2 seperate signals, cause the rumble in the lower frequency area it too long, so i wanted to use a gate on it but not on the whole audio file. + maybe treat the rest a bit different too. so my approach idea is/was:

duplicate the file
File - LOW
File - HIGH

riuted to 2 different mixer channels
File - LOW = Pro-Q3 everything cut upwards 300hz
File - HIGH = Pro-Q3 everything cut below 300hz

strange thing, it sounds different together than muting those effects? how can this be?



or do you guys have a better solution how to do this? and why it sounds different? normally both together only split should sound unaltered? there may no phase issues...

to me it seems like phase issues...are you really sure you have used linear-phase filters??

[Caine123]

how can this be?

because band-splitting(*) isnt perfect, frequencies around the split point will appear in both the split signals, even when using a filter designed for band-splitting, which you're not.

(* which is what this basically is)

try different eq modes and different eqs, or perhaps a crossover filter specifically designed for this sort of job. bluecat mb7 is the most comprehensive at 7 bands, the hornet 3xover one is cheap, sigmod does other useful stuff too, and the one in the ddmf metaplugin demo can be used in other hosts.
[/quote]

thx a lot! i need to check cause i didnt want to get new plugins

hi !

ok this one is strange, i wanted to split and audio file in 2 seperate signals, cause the rumble in the lower frequency area it too long, so i wanted to use a gate on it but not on the whole audio file. + maybe treat the rest a bit different too. so my approach idea is/was:

duplicate the file
File - LOW
File - HIGH

riuted to 2 different mixer channels
File - LOW = Pro-Q3 everything cut upwards 300hz
File - HIGH = Pro-Q3 everything cut below 300hz

strange thing, it sounds different together than muting those effects? how can this be?



or do you guys have a better solution how to do this? and why it sounds different? normally both together only split should sound unaltered? there may no phase issues...

to me it seems like phase issues...are you really sure you have used linear-phase filters??

yeah i just did, still doesnt sound the same :/

[whyterabbyt]

Arent you using FL? It seems to have a crossover filter built-in, according to another thread...

viewtopic.php?p=8325273#p8325273

[kvaca]

yeah i just did, still doesnt sound the same :/

strange, seems like a big problem or bug with linear phase design in fabfilter plugin

and now I am trying to replicate the same in Melda M linear-phase eq and it sounds as expected -exactly the same...you definitely should contact fabfilter devs!!

edit: maybe the problem is with slope/Q/ of Fabfilter cuts...its too different to neutral slope of Melda one...replicating the same slope on ProQ cut seems difficult

[DJ Warmonger]

You cannot do transparent split with random filter configurations... amplitude spectrum is only one part, there's phase spectrum as well which you completely destroy with this setup.
Need to use Linwitz-Riley filters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linkwitz% ... ley_filter

An alternative is to filter out one band, then substract it from the full signal to get the other part. I've got Ableton racks that do that.

[kvaca]

An alternative is to filter out one band, then substract it from the full signal to get the other part. I've got Ableton racks that do that.

in this case you still need to use linear-phase filters to avoid phase issues resulting in hearable artifacts /ripples/ when any gain changes happen only in one of the bands...

[Dirk Diggler]

You're removing the highs in 1, and removing the lows in the other.
Already each file is very different.

If you merge them back together, you are adding back in the treble and bass you just removed from the other file.

Also you're doubling up on the information in between.

If it's just a low end issue, just roll of the bass and move on.
Unless I'm not understanding something here...

[antic604]

Well, just don't compare the pre- and post-signals. I'm assuming you're planning to apply different effects to both layers (or at least to one of them) anyway, so it will sound different in the end too.

I've not encountered a transparent x-over filter / splitter yet.

[Agreed]

I like Metaplugin for splitting audio to process into separate tracks, frequency dependent, with different VSTs per split.

For a one-stop shop to addressing frequency specific issues on a track I like Audiority's Polycomp, which has two adjustable band splitters and thus runs three VCA-style comps, one on each band, with good range of adjustments possible, then gives you level control and even bypass capability for each band. I haven't found it to annihilate my audio with the split.

For more out there stuff, TRIAD has a great toolkit and no required additional software ecosystem for processing band-split audio all sorts of different ways (try Mid/Side, that's fun), and if you do want a bigger modular ecosystem, PhasePlant offers "Multipass" which is a pretty nice tool that loads their Snap-In plugins and lets you do creative stuff with them and the band splitter.

I wish IK would add some band splitting capabilities to Mix Box, it would be really cool to do that there with its tools.